Composition of Palm BOR

Scout Badge, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle Palms.

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Composition of Palm BOR

Postby Quailman » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:15 pm

At a troop COH last week our District Advancement Chair was in attendance. I mentioned to her the difficulties I had in obtaining the council approval on an Eagle Palm application (unrelated to this topic, but he had listed various MBs on his Eagle application, including his most recent, while Troopmaster had applied all the MBs chronologically). She (the DAC) told me that she should be included on Palm BORs. I cannot find this anywhere in the literature. This section of the forum, and the Guide to Advancement, includes Eagle Palms with the ranks leading up to Eagle. No mention is made of including district or council representatives on Palm BORs in the GTA.

Has anyone here ever heard this? Is there a citation? I'd rather not have to coordinate around her schedule, not that she hasn't been available for Eagle BORs in the past. As it happened, this boy has remained active and taken on the webmaster role, and he asked the SM for a conference at the beginning of our first meeting after his three months had passed. Since there were several MCs in attendance for lower rank BORs, we went ahead and held one for him. If we have to include the DAC it adds a layer of logistics that I'd rather not deal with.
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby biglou » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:02 pm

Interesting. Is this a local council policy?
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:56 am

Palm BORs are held at the unit level. If that is a local policy, it is wrong. Ask her to show it to you.

TM does do what Quailman says so you do have to be careful on what MBs are used on the Palm app. We pull out the scout's troop advancement folder to make sure we don't "double dip" on the Palm app.
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby FrankJ » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:31 am

I imagine recording the advancement on BSA internet advancement would avoid this?
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:55 am

FrankJ wrote:I imagine recording the advancement on BSA internet advancement would avoid this?


No. IA records the dates entered or loaded up through TM.

The reason this gets out of whack is that the scout chooses any non ER MBs he wants to put on his Eagle application. Could be his 1st one or his last one. So when Palm time comes around you need to be careful what MBs are put on the Palm application. This is why our Adv Coordinator keeps a copy of his Eagle App and all Palm apps in his personal advancement folder
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby Bill Pitcher » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:57 pm

Good idea, Matt! I've seen Scouts choose the MB's for their Eagle App. only to have National choose others (cronological ones) when the electronic app. comes back. Can get confusing.
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:10 am

The internet advancement app (scoutnet more or less) only records completion dates. From its record no one can tell which merit badges is use for which rank.
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby kwildman » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:57 pm

i was not even aware that there was an eagle palm form. I checked w/ a couple other SMs in our council and neither were they. We just do the BOR and add it to the online advancement. No need to track which MB is used for what it is simply multiples of 5 past the required 21. After the first three palms they start showing up as Eagle +20 merit badges, Eagle +25 merit badges, etc. on the advancement reports. Would be a real pain to have to submit another form for each palm every three months.

Sure hope that this doesnt come back to bite me in the backside.
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:07 pm

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/58-709_WB.pdf

Notice the Approval by the Scout Executive Block?
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby Quailman » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:40 pm

Troopmaster prints that form for you. The person who checks them at our council noticed the previously used MBs and declined it. When I called her, she told me which ones were used on his Eagle application. Now I'll just have to complete the form linked to above for future palms.

We had a problem several years ago with our troop's first palm. The youth had included his elective merit badges on his Palm application in the order earned. The problem arose when the Council somehow had counted a much more recently earned one that the troop Advancement Chair had entered with an incorrect date (approximately the day he crossed over, four years prior).

I've e-mailed the DAC for clarification about my original question and have not yet heard back.
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Re: Composition of Palm BOR

Postby RWSmith » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:54 pm

Sorry, I'm a little late to the conversation, here.

Quailman wrote:....(the DAC) told me that she should be included on Palm BORs. I cannot find this anywhere in the literature. This section of the forum, and the Guide to Advancement, includes Eagle Palms with the ranks leading up to Eagle. No mention is made of including district or council representatives on Palm BORs in the GTA.

Has anyone here ever heard this? Is there a citation? .... Since there were several MCs in attendance for lower rank BORs, we went ahead and held one for him. If we have to include the DAC it adds a layer of logistics that I'd rather not deal with.

Quailman,

Yes; you are correct; and your DAC is wrong. Period. Eagle Palm BORs are identical --and I do mean, identical-- to those for Tenderfoot through Life. (Ref: Guide To Advancement, 8.0.2.0 Particulars for Tenderfoot Through Life Ranks (or Palms).)

IOW, she has no business sitting (in) on any unit-level BOR... i.e., Tenderfoot through Life ranks, or Palms. (Of course, ESBORs and Appeals (for any rank or Palm) are not "unit-level".)

Frankly, I kinda-sorta got the feeling she already knows it, too. Either that, or she has no business being the DAC (yet) because she doesn't even know the basics. When she told you that she "should be included" on Eagle Palm BORs, was her tone such that she inferred she "must be included"? Or, was it such that she would "like to be included"? Did she say anything about being an active BOR member? Or, was it to be strictly as and observer?

Eagle Scout Palm Application paperwork tips:

  • First, use the latest Eagle Scout Palm Application, 58-709 (2008 Edition); it is fillable and savable.
  • Second, once the Scout passes the Palm BOR, fill out and sign three originals:
    • send one the the council;
    • keep one for the unit records; and
    • give one to the Scout.
  • Third, your job is done. Well, almost... IMO, give the council 30 days (maximum) to verify, approve and/or reply.
  • Now, yes... technically speaking... the Scout Executive (not his/her designee) has to approve Palm Applications. But, come on... I mean, what's s/he gonna do? Not sign it? What choice does s/he have, really? Well, there are two exceptions (aren't there always?):
    1. If the Scout passes the BOR, then it's 99.99% a done deal. The only way the SE could deny this would be if he has written statements (or other documented evidence) that the ULs/MCs are pencil-whipping a Scout's Palm Application; --OR--
    2. As already noted in prior threads... if any MBs listed on the Palm Appl. show up in ScoutNet as having been already "counted" on his ESRA, or, the council's copy(ies) of any prior Palms, then the Registrar is supposed to kick it back to you, with an explanation. AFAIC, this is the ONLY reason for having this form.
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