rank for troop positions

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rank for troop positions

Postby podtwo » Wed May 06, 2009 11:06 am

We recently had troop elections and in one patrol a tenderfoot won patrol leader and a scout won asst patrol leader. This patrol has a life scout that refuses to run for patrol leader. Is there a minimum rank required for patrol leader/ asst patrol leader?
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby alex gregory » Wed May 06, 2009 11:39 am

No.

If the Life scout refuses to run that is his choice, and he knows he has missed an opportunity for POR. Maybe he can talk to the SM about a leadership project or appointment to a non-elected POR position. Hopefully he stays engaged in his patrol and helps his novice leaders.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 06, 2009 12:16 pm

alex gregory wrote:No.

If the Life scout refuses to run that is his choice, and he knows he has missed an opportunity for POR. Maybe he can talk to the SM about a leadership project or appointment to a non-elected POR position. Hopefully he stays engaged in his patrol and helps his novice leaders.


IMHO...My guess is that there is more to the story. If he's a Life Scout, he knows what is needed to advance and if he has no interest in being a PL to younger scouts, I wonder how much interest he has in advancing further. It could be that he's too busy to devote the time to be an effective PL but podtwo used the word "refuses". He also could have completed the POR requirement for Eagle and wants to give others a chance.

SMC time?
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby podtwo » Wed May 06, 2009 12:27 pm

OK, additional info. I am the Scoutmaster. Just took over in January. I have two boys in the troop and the Life in question is mine. He has started his Eagle project and only needs camping and family life to finish. He will be 14 at the end of the month, so he has lots of time, but he refused to run for the patrol leader position. He currently is scribe, which qualifies as a position for Eagle (we double checked after the elections). I don't know if he is rebeling against me or scouting in general. Any suggestion that he work to finish up the remaining requirements and he threatens to quit. I don't know if I should step down or remain as the SM.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby Mrw » Wed May 06, 2009 1:09 pm

Sounds like he is being snarky just because he is 14 and he can be. As long as he participates and does not detract from other scouts, let him be for a while.

He will get over it. After a few more months of getting used to having you as the SM, have an assistant ASM or the advancement chair or someone else (anyone but you) ask how things are going and if he needs any help in working towards his next rank goal or badges. It should be just a friendly discussion and seemingly posed for curiosity's sake rather than something construed as pressure.

I always let someone else chase after my kids about things like that when they needed it, and it worked much better that way.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby kwildman » Wed May 06, 2009 1:20 pm

snarky? :lol:

If it is a "new scout" patrol then the tenderfoot and scout youths have a good opportunity to get their feet wet. I can understand a life scout passing on being a PL if he already has completed his POR requirement and he wants to spend more time to focus on his eagle project. Sometimes kids just want to be kids and not have to be responsible for things.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 06, 2009 2:59 pm

Ah...the rest of the story. Seems to me that he might not want it to look like he in getting any special attention from the SM. Maybe some of his buddies are giving him a hard time. If he's 14 and working on Eagle, he's doing fine and don't wrap yourself around the axle over this.

I try hard and am careful to keep my "distance" from my 16 year old on troop events and he likes it that way. Helped him develop his leadership and he is a "go-to" guy for the younger scouts.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby evmori » Thu May 07, 2009 9:00 am

Just for the record, Assistant Patrol Leader doesn't fulfill the POR requirement for any rank.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby Mrw » Thu May 07, 2009 9:14 am

Our SM recently assigned an ASM for each patrol to monitor their progress and activities. He put parents with the patrol their own boy is in. I suggested to him that was not going to work well and that he should switch a couple of them. It did not happen.

Now a month later, the parents are asking for a switch because they boys are unhappy about mom or dad being there all the time and they are getting teased. I am trying hard to not say "I told you so!"
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby Cowboy » Thu May 07, 2009 10:29 pm

Although there are not rank requirements, there are common sense requirements. Can a boy who has not completed the requirements of T21 really be an effective leader? Probably not. I maintain that NO boy should ever receive Eagle unless they have served as a PL for at least six months. That would include SPL & ASPL, but not APL. How can a boy be awarded the ultimate leadership rank if he has not served in a Leadership position? Baffles me.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby podtwo » Fri May 08, 2009 11:29 am

Cowboy wrote:Although there are not rank requirements, there are common sense requirements. Can a boy who has not completed the requirements of T21 really be an effective leader? Probably not. I maintain that NO boy should ever receive Eagle unless they have served as a PL for at least six months. That would include SPL & ASPL, but not APL. How can a boy be awarded the ultimate leadership rank if he has not served in a Leadership position? Baffles me.


I agree, but we are not allowed to add any requirements. If the book says a boy can be scribe or historian, and that is all they want to do, we can not impose any other restrictions.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby gwd-scouter » Sat May 09, 2009 6:07 am

Your son may find out he doesn't like much being told what to do in his patrol by a Tenderfoot PL. Fourteen is young for an Eagle. Let him slow down a bit and enjoy the journey. Perhaps that's exactly what he wants to do.
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Re: rank for troop positions

Postby smtroop168 » Sat May 09, 2009 4:00 pm

Cowboy wrote:Although there are not rank requirements, there are common sense requirements. Can a boy who has not completed the requirements of T21 really be an effective leader? Probably not. I maintain that NO boy should ever receive Eagle unless they have served as a PL for at least six months. That would include SPL & ASPL, but not APL. How can a boy be awarded the ultimate leadership rank if he has not served in a Leadership position? Baffles me.



Although in theory it sounds good, any decent size troop would have to turn the SPL. ASPL and PLs over monthly to get everyone through. I am not a fan of some of the PORs "counting" but they do, so we have to work with what we have.
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