Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

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Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby Cowboy » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:30 pm

History first: My son began as a Tiger and just made Life last night at the age of 14 1/2. Although he did not advance ranks quickly to begin with, he did not care, he was having fun and working on MB's. He was appointed ASPL at the end of last school year. The SPL has missed over 35% of Troop meetings and over 50% of PLC meetings and attended 1 out of 5 nights of camping since they "took over." This has put my son in the position of acting SPL with virtually no leadership/guidance from the older boys. We have 4 other Life Scouts (SPL, 2 Guides, Historian) all who are there less than 65% of the time. My son has been acting SPL with a 12 year old acting as ASPL for over 6 months now (the only boys in a troop of 18 with "perfect attendance"). The failure of the older boys to attend meetings and outings is a completely seperate issue that we are trying to deal with also. Of the four "older" Life Scouts none reached that rank with more than the requisit number of MB's, and since advancement they have all completed thier EP, but have only earned one MB each in the past 4 - 6 months. They are all 15 1/2 to 16 yrs old. My son has worked hard and completed all ER MB's (last one the night of his SM & BoR) and has 13 electives also. He has decided on his Eagle Project and spoken to a representative of both the benefitting org and also an Eagle Project advisor already with a tenative idea. Although this was "strictly by the book" out of order, he was being prepared. If he is able to do this project it will require that the physical work begin as soon as the frost leaves, and he needed before pictures without 4' of snow cover. He has made it very clear in word and deed that he intends to stay ACTIVE in the Troop after he reaches Eagle. He is signed up for NYLT and CIT this summer and has been asked by Council (and agreed) to help organise the summer Cub Day Camp this year. He is registered to attend Jambo 2010, and wants to be a junior counselor at summer camp next year also. Got it, even if I was not his father I would be tooting this kids horn. My biggest struggle most of the time is not bragging him up. Now the real problem:
I have sat on many BoRs and have heard many times that "we need to slow him down". We have several ASMs and other committee members who do not want the boys to reach Eagle until after they are 17 so that they stay in the troop. The boys have come to know that they can come to me and I will help push the rest of the leaders and "run interference" for them. Both I and my son have made it very clear that his Eagle project is very time sensitive in regards to frost, etc. We have made it very clear that he is and will stay active in the troop. Last week he requested a SMC and was told no problem, they could do it during the meeting. Oh wait, the meeting rolled around and guess who wasn't there? The SPL. My son had to run the meeting and wait until the last 20 mins for his SMC. Not only did they have two new "transfers" (11 yr old Tenderfeet), 4 visiting Weeblos II, but they were working on "boring" camp preparations. After a full hour of PLC followed by 1.25 hours of trying to keep control of 10 bored 11 and 12 yr olds he finally got away for his SMC. He was unable to concentrate and give good concise answers so the SM stopped the conference and told him to come back "next week" . Due to other things being scheduled for last night he had to have his SMC at 5:30. He tried to arrange a BoR before the meeting (7:00) but for once none of the TC members showed up until 5 minutes of. Guess who did not show again? Guess who had to lead the meeting? To top it off they were working on the Engineering MB this week and he needed to be there to complete his project. He finally managed to get away from the Troop meeting at 8:05. At 9:10 they finally finished with the BoR. 1 hour and 5 minutes! One of the TC members (a friend) contacted me this morning and told me that the others commented afterwards that they were going to try to stall my sons Eagle project (which would put it off for a full year) so that he stays in the troop. The SM told one of the ASMs this between the SMC & BoR. Like I said, I usually can run interference for the boys, but this is my son. If the TC and SM are trying to hold him back, how do I run interference for him. I know that he will tell them to go fly a kite and I will walk with him.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby Mrw » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:35 pm

Start by pointing out that if boys were truly not supposed to be earning Eagle until they were nearly 18, there would be no such thing as Eagle Palms and certainly no provisions for earning multiple palms!


You commented that he has already spoken with an Eagle Advisor regarding his project. I will assume this person is not one ot the TC members who wants to slow him down. Your son, with your support if needed, should enlist this person to help push a reluctant CC or SM if needed to get his project approvals. Regardless of what they might like to think, the rest of the committee really has no say in this. There is no committee sign-off on the project.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:39 pm

Your Son: Mr. SM...why do the adults want to hold me back from advancing?

If this is the Troop's SM and Comm's way of doing things, I'd find another troop. Doesn't sound like they are living up to the Scout Oath and Law to me.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby kwildman » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:10 pm

This seems to be a reoccurring theme and it is unacceptable. i would work to remove these people that are not serving the youth of the troop.

BSA guidance recommends first class in the first year and then 1 rank per year. Anyone fill out a quality unit report??? They want to see the youth advancing. Therefore, if a scout joins at 10.5, first class 11.5, star 12.5, life 13.5, and eagle 14.5. Some will move slower and some will move faster. Motivated scouts that do the work should be encouraged not stalled.

:twisted:
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby Cowboy » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:22 pm

Thanks for the response so far. If nothing else my disertation helped me feel better and your responses have helped to reassure that I am not just being a meddling overprotective father.
The advisor that he spoke to is one of the TC members that want to see him slowed down :evil: .
The SM is a great guy who really does do a great job for the Trop and boys 99% of the time. I think his biggest concern is actually the "future" and lack of Boy leaders. We have three boys at Star, one will definately make Eagle, one probably, and one no way. Everyone else in the Troop is 2nd class and Tenderfeet. Holding the "aggressive" guys back is going to drive them out to a different Troop. Along with the only two people who know advancements, the treasurer and two ASMs.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:24 pm

Cowboy wrote:Of the four "older" Life Scouts none reached that rank with more than the requisit number of MB's, and since advancement they have all completed thier EP, but have only earned one MB each in the past 4 - 6 months. They are all 15 1/2 to 16 yrs old.


Maybe because they have been told not to expect to make Eagle until they're 17+ so they are thinking "Why Bother?"
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:26 pm

Cowboy wrote:The SM is a great guy who really does do a great job for the Trop and boys 99% of the time.


Then HE needs to tell the TC to knock it off. You son must be the 1% that he missing.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby jr56 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:36 pm

No, you are right. This is wrong and you and your son have every right to be upset.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby 9009scoutmaster » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:06 pm

Cowboy. Contact your district or councils advancement chairman. How are Eagle BOR handled in your district. Are they handled on the unit level or the district/council level.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby biglou » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:30 pm

I can understand what you are going through. Been there, done that, got the sticker for it! Well, no sticker. This Troop Committee seems to be like mine. Here is a copy of a link that you might find very useful. It is the BSA Advancement Guide, current edition. I think you might need to make copies and have them read it. I found it to be very useful!


http://www.zion412.org/Library/Advancem ... deBook.pdf
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:58 pm

I refuse to respond to this I might have to delete myself.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby kwildman » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:04 am

wagionvigil wrote:I refuse to respond to this I might have to delete myself.


:lol: This is either great restraint or you are really afraid of that wagionvigil moderator guy! :lol:
No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. - Lord Baden-Powell
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby cballman » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:52 am

No the restraint that we have put forth would probley make quite a few people upset with our peeps on this board. if we said what we mean and feel.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby kwildman » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:07 am

cballman wrote:No the restraint that we have put forth would probley make quite a few people upset with our peeps on this board. if we said what we mean and feel.


Unfortunately some of the issues like this one you probably should say what you mean and feel. Remember "...you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs" -The Joker
No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. - Lord Baden-Powell
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:21 pm

I think 16 is a good age for the eagle rank. Much younger & they are really not ready on the leadership side, much older older & the fumes start to get them. This is just my opinion, I neither "speed scout up" or " slow them down" based on it since It really should be the scout that determine how fast he advances.

As far as the opinion that scouts should give back to the program after he earns his eagle rank-- That is no where in the eagle rank requirement. Most boys seem to go on to other things shortly after they make eagle, so what? for most of them, that is a good thing. The ones that stay on their own volition are the one you generally want.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:02 pm

FrankJ wrote:it since It really should be the scout that determine how fast he advances.


And that is the reason why this post started. The Scout's so-called leaders are placing obstacles in his advancement path and they should be called on it.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby Cowboy » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:42 pm

The sad part is that by trying to slow these two boys down (my son and a 12 yr Star) they are driving them away. These two are the ones who always participate in everything including Cubby Klondike, Cub Summer Day Camp, etc. They are the ones most likely to continue actively after Eagle. The guys who never do anything anyway are assisted in advancement to hurry them up (to Eagle) before they completely lose interest.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby jr56 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:18 pm

Nobody should be pushed along or held back. The pace of advancement is entirely up to the boy. The ball should be totally in his court, so to speak.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby ronin718 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:07 pm

FrankJ wrote:... As far as the opinion that scouts should give back to the program after he earns his eagle rank-- That is no where in the eagle rank requirement.


Not in the Eagle rank requirement, but they are there in the requirements for the Eagle Palms. Look at these requirements:

1. Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 3 months after becoming an Eagle Scout or after the award of your last Palm.

3. Make a satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability.

How could you fulfill these requirements without giving back to the program? Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
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Re: Need help and to blow off steam. Advancing to Eagle

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:15 pm

cballman wrote:No the restraint that we have put forth would probley make quite a few people upset with our peeps on this board. if we said what we mean and feel.



OK What I feel. The Troop is doing nothing for the Older Boys.
These boys would be better served by joining a Crew and finishing their Eagle Then
These leaders do not understand the BSA Methods and Aims
These Leaders should be Gone
THe Parents of these Boys should Make alot of noise.

This is why I am for a Mandatory Move To Venturing!!!!
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