A Failed Board of Review

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Postby pipestone1991 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:50 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Again her we have someone that is adding to the requirements. Maturity is no where mentioned in any BSA Literature that I know of. Does show scout spirit? The SM Thinks so or he would not have sent him for the BOR. He is able to have a BOR today if you want.


And yet I had to wait three months before I earned Eagle because of "maturity". Anymore they should just put a chapter in the next Boy scout Handbook covering the topic of adding to the rules.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:22 pm

pipestone take a look at the training session I posted. this is what a BOR is and what they can and cannot do.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:25 pm

wagionvigil wrote:pipestone take a look at the training session I posted. this is what a BOR is and what they can and cannot do.


I understand that. Yet many leaders do not. I was exagerating to make a point.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:27 pm

They have no choice. These are the rules. If they go against those rules the scout has the right to file an appeal to council. This is something that should be immediately.
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Postby Fibonacci » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:31 pm

11) Work with a college to create a major in Youth Services with Scouting (Boy or Girl) to help create more professional Scouters.

Our previous District Executive has a degree in something like Youth Leadership from BYU.
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Postby Fibonacci » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:51 pm

I have a question (prompted by this thread.) In the Advancement Policy booklet, it states that no relative may serve on a Scout's Board of Review. How about the Scoutmaster Conference? Our SM says his favorite part of being a SM is doing the SM conference, but he never does the conference for his own son. We have only two active ASMs, so he asks one of those two to do it. Is there a policy on SM conference being held by a relative?
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:58 pm

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/train ... ining.aspx


Here it is. I think you will find what you were told is wrong. If it is not in writing it does not exist.
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Postby FrankJ » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:35 pm

There is no rule about a SM conducting a board of review for his son. The SM is the word about advancement until BOR.

In our troop, SM's son has always has his advancement & SM conferences by an ASM. Personally I think it is better for the scout this way, but there is not a BSA rule requiring it.
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Postby Mrw » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:43 pm

In our troop also, the SM asks one of the ASM's to do the conferences with his sons.

I was angry when I saw the original post in this thread and got angrier when I read the additional information. That the District Advancement person is passing that much bad information and went along with coming in to do a Life BOR is very bad.

In addition to sitting down with the CC and seeing why they thought this was a good idea and having a training session on Advancement with your committee, I would go ahead and appeal the ruling to Council. This is the only way the District person will get flagged and hopefully retrained. If she did this to your son, there are probably other kids suffering from bad and improper decisions.
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Postby Hubert » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:08 am

I agree with Mrw and FrankJ. My step dad is the CC, so with my Eagle Paperwork, it was signed by him AND a ASM. I had this done to prevent anyone pulling the "relative" card.

I think the same fits for this. Conduct your BoR as SM and have an ASM tag along as well. One should be denied the right to speak with the scoutmaster just because he is your son.

The more I read this the more upset I get. I do not at all like the idea of an outside source.

Now I will admit this: a lot of my boards were formed by outside members/ HOWEVER they were not random, and they knew me well. It was always at a summer camp of some sort for the Cub Scouts and troop com. was barely there. My mother and father did not sit on the boards so that took out the CC and another member. So we put together a board of those who have watched me grow up. Let me tell you, when I walked away with the aproval from them, I felt like I really deserved it. It was NOT an easy board. Not a test, but a lot of, not so much personal questions, but very deep ones, that needed more than a yes or no.

But for a total stranger to be in on it is not right. If it made him feel uncomfortable, then it should have stopped right there.

Its HIS board, this is for HIM.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:15 am

Wow!! Not much to add to this one. Clearly wrong, no doubt.

However, as others have mentioned, file a complaint and appeal. Why? Well, for the Scout to some extent. But more for the the other Scouts who will be impacted in the future if this continues. Always remember, if a behaviour isn't challenged, there is a very low chance that it will change. Also, if people don't speak up when something is not right then they don't know if anyone else has noticed or otherwise knows about it.

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Postby wagionvigil » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:25 am

ANother Question for my self. Is this a LDS Troop?
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Postby ThunderingWind » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:57 am

Fibonacci wrote:
11) Work with a college to create a major in Youth Services with Scouting (Boy or Girl) to help create more professional Scouters.

Our previous District Executive has a degree in something like Youth Leadership from BYU.


That is more broad focused. I would like to see a more narrow focused degree thus the name Youth Services with Scouting.

They would take course work in fitness, outdoor skills, Lifesaving and other Scout skills and course designed aroung knwoing to program. One track would be Fund Raising, one track would be Scouting Program (units and youth). It is this last group that would be professional Camp Directors later in life.
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Postby OldGreyBear » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:01 am

I am not sure what to appeal. The Board of Review was not composd of 3-6 Committee members of the Troop so anything they decided can't be appealed, its as if it didnt happen. The youth can have a Board of review as soon as you get 3 committee members together. You should find out what the deal was with the CC bringing in another person. Well, no more being a Necrophiliac Sodomistic Equestrian (I love to beat a dead horse)
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Postby Mrw » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:08 am

The fact that this is a pretty new troop figures largely into this picture. If the CC did not know better and asked the clearly wrong District advancement person how to do a Life BOR and got a bad answer, training and/or a simple discussion will solve the immediate problem.

The big issue in this equation is that the District person will continue to misinform this and other troops. Possibly derailing other boys in their advancement as well. And this same person will be back to conduct the boy's EBOR in the likely not to distant future.

This is where raising the issue with Council becomes very important in correcting the overall problem.
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Postby ronin718 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:09 am

wagionvigil wrote:ANother Question for my self. Is this a LDS Troop?

Why does this matter? Is this question prompted because of the age of the boy, or is there something else prompting this?

I know the LDS folks do have fast-burners, but they are not the only ones. My son just turned 12 and he's a Star. He's working on his three Eagle-req'd MBs to finish his Life, and he could potentially have that done in April. That means he could potentially earn his Eagle before he turns 13. I'm not counting on this, I figure reality and life will set in to slow him down, but the possibility is there.
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failed board of review

Postby jreader4564 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:10 am

I feel like I am beating a dead horse.

The CC said she brought in an outsider because she didn't think she would have enough board memebers there for the review.
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failed board of review

Postby jreader4564 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:14 am

our district advancement chair-the outsider brought into the life board does not believe that a boy should make eagle that young, so I am sure that age had a lot to do with him failing.
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Re: failed board of review

Postby ronin718 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:14 am

jreader4564 wrote:The CC said she brought in an outsider because she didn't think she would have enough board members there for the review.

Well, I think the consensus is your CC screwed up. I know I'd be pretty fried if this had happened to my son, and I'd be lighting a serious fire under the CC's backside for going outside the rules.

Of course, would this have been an issue if the BoR was "passed"? Probably not, but it would've been just as wrong.
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Re: failed board of review

Postby ronin718 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:16 am

jreader4564 wrote:our district advancement chair-the outsider brought into the life board does not believe that a boy should make eagle that young, so I am sure that age had a lot to do with him failing.

Yeah, that's a common perception out there in the Scouting world, at least outside of the LDS realm.
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