Appointed or Elected?

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Appointed or Elected?

Postby Mad Dog » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:55 am

Summer is drawing to a close and a new scout year is almost upon us. One of the first order of business that out troop does is to determine leadership positions for the year. There seems to be a difference of opinion about whicj positions are elected by the troop, wich are appointed by the SPL and which are appointed by the SM. Any guidance would be appreciated.
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Postby gwd-scouter » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:29 am

In our Troop (and, hopefully, we're doing it right) the SPL is elected by the Scouts. PLs are elected by Scouts in the patrols. SPL appoints his ASPL. PLs appoint their APLs.

All other positions (troop guide, scribe, quartermaster, etc.) are appointed by joint recommendation of the SM and SPL.
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Postby hacimsaalk » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:25 am

we just had our elections, last tuesday. in our troop, the SPL is elected by the troop. the PL's are elected by their individual patrols. SPL's pick the ASPL, PL's pick their APL's. the other positions are picked by the SPL and SM from those who volunteer for them.

hope this helps
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Postby evmori » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:07 pm

We elect SPL, ASPL, & PL's. All other positions are appointed by the SPL & SM.
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Postby 616kayak » Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:54 pm

We elect all positions. Our SPL has never had a problem with who his ASPL was and has always been ok with elections. This Year we had one running for SPL and two for ASPL. The SPL just took in both of the ASPLs.
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Postby hops_scout » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:13 pm

We elect ASPL every six months as a troop. Patrol leaders are elected at the same time by each patrol. The ASPL serves six months and then becomes the SPL for six months.

Little bit different, but it works for us.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:16 pm

Just checked my copy of the Scoutmaster's Handbook to be sure. Sounds like most Troops follow the guidance there.

SPL is elected by the Troop. PL is elected by the Patrol members. ASPL is appointed by the SPL with the approval of the SM. PL appoints APL. SM can help the SPL select all others.

That's what the book says. That sounds like what many of you say. And it is the way our Troop does it.

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Electing vs appointing

Postby USforester » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:12 pm

The SM with input from the Troop Committee appoint the SPL, ASPL's, guides and instructors & patrol leaders. Our troop is large and this allows us the flexibility to move the boys around to different jobs so they get experience in different positions. It also avoids boys being passed over for leadership roles to fulfilling their leadership requirements. Generally, the SPL will come from the ranks fo ASPLs (usually 2 to 4 of them). The boys don't have a problem with this approach.

I know when I was a scout we elected the leadership and there are advantages, primarily haveing the boys learn that popular doesn't always mean a good leader.
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Postby FrankJ » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:01 pm

Our troop is moderately large (50-70). PLs APLS & SPL are elected. All other troop leadership (except troop guides, instructors, den chiefs & JASM) are appointed by the SPL with input from SM. Scouts are strongly encouraged to only be SPL once. elected positions turn over every six months. I feel anybody with a vote on the PLC should be elected.
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Postby Mad Dog » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:51 pm

We have a small troop and SM is considering changing term lengths from 12 months to 6. I don't think the boys can really learn the position in 6 months. It seems that is when they are just getting into the swing of things.
Last edited by Mad Dog on Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby vpalango » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:34 am

We made one "modification" that I still fits in the spirit and language of the guidelines.

For PLs we hold elections for the #of patrols we have, (in our case 2). The elections are then open to anyone who wants to run for PL. Each scout then votes for (in this case 2) patrol leaders. The 2 with the highest votes got the jobs.

The SM Council (Myself and the ASMs), then re-shuffled the patrols. This allowed us to:

1) hold the elections
2) keep the patrols fresh by having boys work in different groups
3) Allowed us to "manage" some personality issues (as scoutmasters)

So far, this is working out very well. We then re-elect within the patrols at the 1/2 way point in our scouting year.

YIS,
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Postby FrankJ » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:30 am

With a six month term for SPL, you pretty much have to hit the ground running. On the other hand there is less chance for burn out. We hold troop level new leader training every six months. Everbody in a leadership positioin is expected to attend.
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Postby mhjacobson » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:50 pm

"The SM with input from the Troop Committee appoint the SPL, ASPL's, guides and instructors & patrol leaders. Our troop is large."

This takes away any vestige of the troop being 'boy governed.' What can be done in the case of a large troop to make sure that there are opportunities for leadership is:
a) make sure that all of the other youth leadership positions (QM, scribe, historian, OA troop representative, etc.) are filled;
b) hold leadership elections every 6 months (term limits?)
c) make sure that you fill your quota of den chiefs

There are more leadership positions than one can believe, and a large troop is just the ticket -- remember the old saw: "too many chiefs, not enough indians!"
50 year+ scouter -- have held almost all adult leader positions in Cubs, Scouts, & Venturing, currently serving as Council Scouting for Youth with Disabilities Chair.
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Postby vpalango » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:46 pm

I agree, the elected positions should be honestly elected! There are some cases, however, where the SM/Committee might appoint some positions. We had this in our troop over the last couple of years due to most of the older boys graduating out, and having a large influx of new scouts at the same time.

We effectively needed to manage the boy leadership very closely for 1 scouting year. However, this was done with specific purpose, and with the specific goal of building new leaders so we could move again to elections.

We held elections this summer, and all elected positions are now filled as a result of the elections.

YIS,
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Postby Chief J » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:27 pm

In our Troop, we elect the SPL in a Troop wide vote. Then each patrol elects their PL. After this, the SPL can choose his ASPl, and the PL's can choose their APL's. All other leadership positions are appointed by the SPL with the SM's input/approval.

Due to the amount of equipment we own, the SPL appoints two QM's.

Our elections/appointments are for 1 year.

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Postby commish3 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:11 am

There seems to be a difference of opinion about whicj positions are elected by the troop, wich are appointed by the SPL and which are appointed by the SM. Any guidance would be appreciated.


As far as guidance, a good place to turn would be the official BSA resources. According to the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Senior Patrol Leader Handbook there are two elected positions in a troop, they are the Senior Patrol Leader and the Patrol Leader. The Senior Patrol Leader, according to the BSA program, is elected by the members of the troop, the patrol leader is elected by the members of his patrol.

Continuing with the information from the official program resources the Senior Patrol Leader selects ALL troop positions (the only one the BSA requires direct adult involvement in is the selection of the Junior Asst. Scoutmaster, which the handbooks say requires the approval of the Scoutmaster.

The Patrol Leader selects all the positions of leadership within the patrol. Each patrol member is to have a specific office of responsibility.

As you point out there seems to be a lot of variation, but if your intention is to offer a scouting program then the scouting methods would likely serve the scouts the best. Certainly following the process that is the handbooks we give them would be less confusing to them.

Hope this helps.
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Postby Troop173Scoutmaster » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:17 pm

I know this thread is dated, but I just found it and thought others would review it one day. We do our election slightly differently (by the boys' request!)

Our ASPL is elected by the boys and serves 6 months. He is then elevated to SPL and a new ASPL is elected.

The SPL appoints all the other positions, while the patrols elect their PL.

This idea came from a PLC meeting. Their thought was that the ASPL would have the training time and still get to put it into practice. The adult leadership thought this was a great idea.
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Postby coneyraven » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:15 pm

We seem to do it a little differently.....All the guys in the troop vote for an SPL and ASPL-----then, at the patrol level, the APL moves into the PL position and the members of each patrol vote one of their respective members to the APL position....(which, of course, looking down the road, will become the PL).
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Postby 9009scoutmaster » Mon May 07, 2007 3:29 pm

Due to the fact that the olders scout that we have in our unit is 12 years old the SPL is appointed by the scoutmaster. WE have no ASPL at this time. The PL and APL are elected by their patrol members. SPL has just make 1st Class and 2 PL are tenderfoot scouts. In the Fall we plan on holding new election for SPL. WE would like for SPL to at least a 1st Class scout. The reason for this is so that they have been in the troop long enought that they have an idea of how the troop youth leadership works.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Mon May 07, 2007 6:09 pm

9009scoutmaster wrote:Due to the fact that the olders scout that we have in our unit is 12 years old the SPL is appointed by the scoutmaster. WE have no ASPL at this time. The PL and APL are elected by their patrol members. SPL has just make 1st Class and 2 PL are tenderfoot scouts. In the Fall we plan on holding new election for SPL. WE would like for SPL to at least a 1st Class scout. The reason for this is so that they have been in the troop long enought that they have an idea of how the troop youth leadership works.

While I can see what you are saying, I am not convinced that this is a reason not to have the Scouts elect the SPL.

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