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Answers, ideas, and suggestions on the stuff troops need.

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Postby Mrw » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:03 am

To do one's duty to God and country.
To help others.
To obey the Scout Law.

None of these requires a uniform.
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Postby commish3 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:08 pm

Actually the three parts of the Boy Scout Oath are:
Duty to God and Country
Duty to Others
Duty to Self

And whether or not these three responsibilities can be achieved without wearing a uniform is irrelevant to the purpose and value of the uniform or the Oath.
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Postby Scouting179 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:57 am

While I can understand why Scouts wouldn't feel comfortable wearing the uniform to places like stores, not wearing it at Scouting functions shows lack of pride and lack of support for the program. The uniform not only represents what we are, it is one of the methods/tools used to achieve the aims of Scouting.
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Postby commish3 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:48 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I can understand why Scouts wouldn't feel comfortable wearing the uniform to places like stores, not wearing it at Scouting functions shows lack of pride and lack of support for the program.


Not according to the BSA's Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training.

In the video on troop meetings a boy comes in wearing his soccer uniform. The SM explains to his young apprentice leader that kids have active lives now days. Billy comes here from his soccer practice this time of year. It's more important to have him here out of uniform than not here at all. When soccer season is over he'll be back in uniform.

I once had a scout show up in a suit because he had just returned to town from a family funeral. I was impressed that the scout and his family were dedicated enough to the troop to come that night. Was he showing lack of suppport for not being in uniform or outstanding support for showing up as he did?

We need to evaluate each individual scout's actions based on their own needs and characteristics.
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Postby Eamonn » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:59 am

I'm a big fan of uniforms.
I seem to have amassed a good many.
My son has full Scout uniforms.
In fact he asked me the other day to pick him up a web Scout belt. He has a tooled leather belt. I asked him why? He said that the belt didn't go with black shoes!!
I wanted to know why he wanted to wear black shoes with his uniform?
He said that they look neater.
(I normally wear brown shoes.)
This is the kid that for a while would carry his Scout Shirt to Troop meetings.
Later I found that this change of heart had more to do with the OA than any love of uniforming.
If belonging to the OA can bring this kid around? I have to wonder why we adults can inspire our Scouts to want to wear the full uniform?
I don't have a problem with the Lad who turns up without a uniform for a BOR (and yes I've had a couple who have come to Eagle Scout BOR's without a uniform)
My problem is why?
Yes Ed I know -Already about the membership thing!!
Why would a Lad not wear a uniform?
1/ He doesn't own one.
Fine let's help him get one. We raise money for other things - Why not uniforms?
2/ His Troop has said that they only wear from the waist up or waist down?? What a waste of time -It is no longer a Scout uniform.
3/ It's in the wash!! A Scout is to be trusted so I have to believe him.

If we took the time and really wanted we could make uniforming as important as advancement.
Not by making stupid rules but by being real leaders.
yiss
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Postby Scouting179 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:58 pm

commish3 wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I can understand why Scouts wouldn't feel comfortable wearing the uniform to places like stores, not wearing it at Scouting functions shows lack of pride and lack of support for the program.


.... The SM explains to his young apprentice leader that kids have active lives now days. Billy comes here from his soccer practice this time of year. ...
We need to evaluate each individual scout's actions based on their own needs and characteristics.


commish3: I was not talking about things like immediate preceding family funerals. For you to use such an extreme example is irresponsible. I was talking about when then have a clear choice and choose not to wear a uniform or a partial uniform. Nor do I buy the that kids are busier nowadays. Soccer, band, basketball, football, cars, and girls all existed in the old days too. I feel the compulsion by many in Scouting to acede to such lines of arguments is driven by Scouting's desire to retain as many kids as we can; whereas football coaches, band leaders, etc often feel free to cut kids whom they feel aren't 'totally dedicated' to their program.
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Postby Lynda J » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:19 pm

As much as I would love to have everyone of my boys show up at every activity we have in uniform. I would prefer that they show up not in uniform that not show up at all. Just like kids that dye their hair crazy colors. Does having green and orange hair make him any less a scout.
Scouting is in the heart and character of a young man not in the clothes he wears. I AM a Scout. It does not matter if I have my uniform on or not. Hopefully we can teach these young men we are working with to be a scout 24/7 and not only when they are in uniform.
When wearing the uniform becomes more important that living the program then there is to much focus on the material and not enough on what is in a scouts heart.
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Postby Scouting179 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:11 pm

Lynda J wrote:As much as I would love to have everyone of my boys show up at every activity we have in uniform. I would prefer that they show up not in uniform that not show up at all. Just like kids that dye their hair crazy colors. Does having green and orange hair make him any less a scout.
Scouting is in the heart and character of a young man not in the clothes he wears. I AM a Scout. It does not matter if I have my uniform on or not. Hopefully we can teach these young men we are working with to be a scout 24/7 and not only when they are in uniform.
When wearing the uniform becomes more important that living the program then there is to much focus on the material and not enough on what is in a scouts heart.


I never saidit was more important than the program, but a part of the program and a reflection of commitment to the program. And if one of my Scouts truly can not afford a uniform, I will, and have, buy it for him.
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Postby commish3 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:58 pm

Scouting 179 you offered no exceptions when you said

not wearing it at Scouting functions shows lack of pride and lack of support for the program.


And the BSA says otherwise. They ask you to not make that kind of blanket evaluation but to consider each scout's situation independently.
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Postby hops_scout » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:47 pm

The only way I see them not wearing their uniform at Scouting events where a uniform makes sense is if they cannot afford to buy one. Other than that I would see that as not having any pride in who they are!
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Postby commish3 » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:01 pm

As a scout Hops I am glad you feel that way and I would hope that all scouts do. But as adult leaders in the BSA program we are expected to look at it differently, and our training reflects that expectation.

It's important for adults to consider each scout's characteristics and needs individually and not make generalizations based on our own personal biases.

Sometimes having the scout there is more important than having him there in uniform. As adult leaders we need to to remember to evaluate each case on its own circumstances.

Even when a scout isn't appearing Loyal it's important that the adult leader remains helpful, friendly, courteous, and kind.
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Postby Scouting179 » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:32 pm

commish3 wrote:Scouting 179 you offered no exceptions when you said

not wearing it at Scouting functions shows lack of pride and lack of support for the program.


And the BSA says otherwise. They ask you to not make that kind of blanket evaluation but to consider each scout's situation independently.


OH REALLY? Show me wear it says that--VERBATIM.

The vast majority of this thread has been nothing but intepretation of vagely written rules and our individual values and standards.
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Postby cballman » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:04 pm

ok people I am going to lock this thread for a while so as we can all settle down. I hate to be the bad guy but aye what the heck. if and when everybody settles down and thinks about all at stake here then either I or another will reopen this thread. and if it is carried on through another thread then other actions will be taken. I want to personally thank each and everyone of you for taking the time to try to help others by being on this board.
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