Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Scout Badge, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle Palms.

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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby evmori » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:40 am

Eagle is simply another rank. The fact that people have turned into something more is part of the problem, in that it has become the purpose of scouting, rather than one part of the scouting journey.


Yes it is another rank. The highest rank in the BSA. And if it wasn't a special achievement, more boys would earn it.
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby razor_strop » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:24 am

Lynda J wrote: I just don't thing that most 13 year olds are mature enough to understand the true depths of what Eagle means.


Again, fortunately that isn't a requirement to earn the rank. Heck, I know plenty of adults--many of them Scouting volunteers--that aren't mature enough to understand what being an Eagle Scout should mean.

We have to be very careful about becoming exclusionary in regards to "maintaining the integrity" of this or that rank or award. As an example, it would be very easy to adopt the belief that unless someone earned the Eagle rank, they don't fully understand what it means and can't play a role in guiding or helping a potential Eagle. That of course is nonsense, and ignores the great things many folks do to support Scouting, but it could be easy to get to a low point like that if we allow any form of non-BSA requirements or judgement steer how we help Scouts advance.
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby kwildman » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:11 pm

ronin718 wrote:kwildman... Congrats to your son on the Eagle!!!! I'm in the same boat with you, also having a son who earned Eagle at 13. He doesn't get the same respect as the older guys, and even gets passed over when senior leadership positions come up. Quite irritating, but we're slowly pushing the envelope.



Thanks. I am not too worried about the older guys as he can take it. It is more the adults that I worry about. We still have units that require kids to be 16 to be an eagle...those leaders need to go.
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby kwildman » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:23 pm

lifescoutforlife wrote:kwildman, congrats to you and your son.



Thanks.
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:48 pm

Ditto but we're getting off track here with regard to my original post.

Are there/should there be 13 y/o Eagles? Sure. These two may be the exception but I haven't personally seen any that could really explain how they pulled off their EP without a lot of "help".

Let fuel something else.....I think the BSA should require all Eagle requirements (INCLUDING THE EBOR) be completed by the 18th birthday with no extensions except for medical reasons.

Maybe RW should split this back into the EAGLE SCOUT thread.
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby kwildman » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:57 am

Ok time to tie these diverging threads back together. Wouldnt combining the ranks make it easier for more kids to make Eagle Scout? Les boards of review, less scoutmaster conferences, etc.?
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby Fred Johnson » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:47 am

kwildman wrote:Wouldnt combining the ranks make it easier for more kids to make Eagle Scout? Less boards of review, less scoutmaster conferences, etc.?


In some troops, maybe. But, I assert that those troops need to re-think their program.

In our troop, scoutmaster conferences and BORs are very easy to get and usually happen the same night the scout makes the request. We average 40 scouts over the years. Essentially, the scout walks up to the scoutmaster and asks for a conference. They plan a time during or after the meeting and the scoutmaster warns several committee members that a BOR will be needed that night. Almost always, both the SMC and the BOR happen the same night as the request.

IMHO, we keep it simple because a different process would be adding requirements and putting unneeded obstacles in place that could only add failure points.
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby kwildman » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:57 am

Fred i wasnt talking about complicating the process. Just that there would only be 1 conf/review where there used to be three. I think the conf/reviews are good for the kids as they need to learn how to conduct themselves and deal with adults, etc. I enjoy seeing the kids progress through these and it allows us time to get to know the kids better and have personal interaction with the SM.
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Re: Combining Tenderfoot, 2nd and 1st Class into one rank

Postby nolesrule » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:31 am

evmori wrote:
Eagle is simply another rank. The fact that people have turned into something more is part of the problem, in that it has become the purpose of scouting, rather than one part of the scouting journey.


Yes it is another rank. The highest rank in the BSA. And if it wasn't a special achievement, more boys would earn it.


I know exactly what it takes to earn it. I can recall the date of my EBOR as easily as my children's birthdays. It is special to me, I wear the square knot, but it's still just another rank.

My comment was on the way adults, both scouters and parents, over-emphasize the advancement method at the expense of the other methods of scouting.

When people ask me about my experience, yeah, I do mention my Eagle. But I also talk about the various camping trips, summer camp and summer camp staff, my involvement in Order of the Arrow, and attending the 1989 National Jamboree, among other things.
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