1st class requirement #5 meet with official

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1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby munnsy » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:58 am

Sorry for the cross post if you are on the scout listservs-

1st class requirement # 5 says: Visit and discuss with a selected individual approved by your leader (elected official, judge, attorney, civil servant, principal, teacher) Discuss your constitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen.

Does anyone have a list of suggestested questions for the boys to discuss with the person they meet with? Specifically regarding obligations and constitutional rights. it me this sound a little tough for 1st or 1 1/2 scout.

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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:00 am

Would there not be some ideas in The Merit Badge Pamphlet for one of the Citizenship MB? Meant to add this but my mind went blank. :oops:
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:04 am

Not tough at all. This is covered in school (hopefully).

FOr someone to talk to, we have a State Rep that's part of the Pack plus the boys use their Social Studies Teachers. There is a fill in the blanks box in their Scout Handbook. Plus the Cit in Nation MB pamphlet can assist for questions.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby kwildman » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:29 am

Not to be smart but what about the following question? "What are my constitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen?"

Remember that these are 11 year old scouts working on this requirement. The idea is that first they have to talk to an adult and second that they have a discussion on citizenship. This can be done in 5 to 10 minutes and satisfy the requirement.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby alex gregory » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:38 pm

munnsy wrote:Does anyone have a list of suggestested questions for the boys to discuss with the person they meet with? Specifically regarding obligations and constitutional rights. it me this sound a little tough for 1st or 1 1/2 scout.

Joe


Mister Gregory, you're a lawyer, can we talk about my constituional rights and obligations please? I really want to get First Class before next Court of Honor. Gee, thanks.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:56 pm

Yes, it *can* be done in five minutes. Does that serve the Scout well?
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:38 am

Interesting comment. How much time do you think it should take?

How much time should any requirement take? For example:

Tenderfoot: 5 Explain Safe Hiking
2nd: 3 Participate in a Flag ceremony
1st: 8a Tie a bowline and explain it's use
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:41 am

My thoughts are whatever it takes 1 minute 30 seconds 30 minutes But it seems some think it should take hours or days :twisted:
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:58 am

It depends...do you require them to make the rope before they tie the bowline and then rescue some one?

Do you have to sew the flag and lash together a pole before the ceremony?

Do you have to go on a hike and avoid a Bear to know what the safe rules are?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby alex gregory » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:09 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Interesting comment. How much time do you think it should take?


Takes me about 30 minutes to have a basic but somewhat meaningful discussion with a group of 3 to 5 kids. I prefer having a group discussion with a few guys to help me use my time more efficiently (have to get the most out of that one hour a week) and it's a lot more fun and interactive with a group.

I suppose you could do it in 5 minutes, but I think there is more than 5 minutes of material to talk about. Perhaps Americans would be less ready to ignore or give up their civil liberties if more of us thought that talking about our rights and responsibilites as Americans was worth a little more than five minutes of our time.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby WeeWillie » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:00 am

All BSA requirements were developed by subject matter experts and education specialists to be age and grade appropriate. Requirements are designed to meet one or more of the Aims of Scouting. They are not designed to be knocked out in 5-10 minutes using canned questions. This requirement has stood the test of time (20 years)

How long?

Read the Scout Handbook. The is an entire page devoted to the requirement and an entire Citizenship chapter. 25-30 min.

Get your leader's approval. Your leader should be spending 5-10 minutes with you to make sure you are on the right track. More if needed. (Leaders should make sure the Scout is ready to go.)

Meet with community leader. 30 min + Most leaders are gracious with their time. Do not insut them with 5-10 minutes

Report back to your leader 5-10 minutes. What did you learn?????

Inviting a leader to a meeting is OK but the steps are the same. A little less prep time at an earlier meeting.

Our Scouts are a lot more capable than many of our parents and leaders allow.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:00 am

I agree with WW here. You need to look at the SPIRIT as well as the LETTER of the requirement. Our SM works for the govt. He lets the boys "interview" him. I don't think that's in the spirit. I made mine call and set up an interview with an elected official. It meant they needed to be prepared before the interview, needed to dress in their ironed and starched Class As ;-), introduce themselves, and conduct an actual interview. They spent about an hour with the guy, who was thrilled to be able to talk about rights and responsibilities [and himself]. They learned a lot about the function of government.

Their Farm Mechanics Implement Dealer interview was considerably shorter, but the subject matter was a lot less important. The process was the same.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby cballman » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:28 am

but the main problem with this and any requirement is that once we explain how it needs to be we have parents get involved and want to help find the easiest way to do the work. lets not let anybody learn from the person lets just let them talk and run. The main problem is that we as parents need to let little Johnny fail at something and understand that if you dont do the work you will have a problem. This thing about no child left behind and everyones a winner will only work up to a certian point. Then when you get into real life BANG WOW why aint everybody still doing everything for me. When reality sets in its to late. This is just one of many things that we need to work on in this Country. Just my humble opinion from a Father who has two kids of my own and a bunch of band kids and a bunch of scouts.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby Mrw » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:20 am

I got some shocked looks about a year ago when someone suggested that we invite someone to a scout meeting to do this since it is almost always the last requirement that a kids has to do, and I said we needed to make them go out and find their own person. And followed that up with a few comments on how we are spoon-feeding too much to kids and we are ending up with whiny, wimpy kids as a result.

I routinely tell new parents that I will only give them information on a merit badge counselor once and that the next time their son needs to speak to me about it. And that the boy is expected to call the counselor as learning to make contacts for themselves is part of the aim of the program.

They look a bit surprised at being told to back off and let the kids do things for themselves, but I have not had anyone argue with me about it or need it explained more than once.
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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby WVBeaver05 » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:42 am

Mrw wrote:I got some shocked looks about a year ago when someone suggested that we invite someone to a scout meeting to do this since it is almost always the last requirement that a kids has to do, and I said we needed to make them go out and find their own person. And followed that up with a few comments on how we are spoon-feeding too much to kids and we are ending up with whiny, wimpy kids as a result.

I agree, but don't have a problem with the Troop setting up a visit from a qualifying official at a meeting when we have several Scouts working on the same requirement. As with all things like this it should be the SPL setting it up. With a group, I would spend a couple minutes with the official making sure that everyone will get involved and would explain the same to the Scouts (or perhaps the SPL would)

Mrw wrote:I routinely tell new parents that I will only give them information on a merit badge counselor once and that the next time their son needs to speak to me about it. And that the boy is expected to call the counselor as learning to make contacts for themselves is part of the aim of the program.

They look a bit surprised at being told to back off and let the kids do things for themselves, but I have not had anyone argue with me about it or need it explained more than once.

I'm with you on this one too. But I go a bit further. I explain to the parents that the Scout needs to ask and why. (It's his MB, after all.)

Same with advancement. Parent says "...X can do the Y..." I say "OK" Parent hands me book, I hand it back. Parent says "...you didn't sign it off..." I say "...I will when X shows/tells/etc. me Y..." (what I think ...censored...). MRW - surprised doesn't quite describe the parents look.

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Re: 1st class requirement #5 meet with official

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:31 pm

OK Since you opedn the door we had an incident atb our camp this summer betwen the Aquatics DIrector and Program Director.
Father came to see the AD about his sons partial from last year. AD Said I will not talk to you Only your son it is his MB.Father went to PD and raised holy hell. PD promptly came down to pool I was at the Tower right next door and proceeded to ream out the AD threatend him etc. I later told her she was wrong that bis not how we do it in scouts it is up to the youth No adults. I also told hert this iwas not a GS Camp that she was used to. I did make an enemy at that tiome with her and her friend the Summer Ranger,we do not have a fukl time ranger. I have re3commended that neither be rehired next year when I sent my summer report to the camping committee. I would hope I do have alittle clout. TH AD Does a fantastic job and his staff really work for him. The PD is a nice young lady but has no clue how to work with staff. The ranger did nothing this summer except drink coffee and take up space. :(
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