Board of Review-Ever Turn Down a Scout For Any Rank?

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Postby ASM-142 » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:30 am

The one individual with the biggest blame here is the candidate himself. He needed to take the responsibilty (show leadership) to get this done. If someone else forgot something he should of reminded them
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Postby wagionvigil » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:37 am

He was told Point Blank we will contact you do not contact us!
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Postby Scouting179 » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:40 am

I agree with ASM-142
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Postby OldGreyBear » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:14 pm

So the scout who trusted that the "Big wigs" of the Distirct knew what they were doing is wrong?
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Postby ASM-142 » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:47 pm

The boy new when he was going to turn 18. Members of the BOR may of forgotten that important fact. If he was told not to contact them he should of contacted his SM or someone at Council to remind the BOR members. In any event it is his responsibility.

Placing blame on the BOR for not following up with the scout when the scout new this was not correct would not work in the workplace and did not work in this situation in scouts.
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Postby Lynda J » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:21 pm

Had a young man that came to his Life BOR and was turned down. His entire attitude stunk. He shuffled in, slouched down in the chair, flopped his arms across his check. When he was ask a question he either answered "nope" or "don't know". To be honest I wanted to whap him up side the head.
We turned him down, Brought him back in and told him exactly why. He was mad. But the next week he had an entirely different attitude toward scouting. I think we woke him up. He is now a great kid. Starting his Eagle and has turned into a good leader for the younger boys.
I don't think that a boy should just get rubber stamped for ranks. He has to show proper respect to the board and to the program.
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Postby don » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:08 pm

Linda J
To start with, I agree he should have been turned down.
But do you think you showed him how to act like a scout at all times, or how to act durning a BOR?
Something seems wrong, if he got to the BOR with that attuuide, he has had a few BOR berore life?
Sounds like he got rubber stamped, just for putting up a front for a couple of minutes. How does this kid act during meetings and campouts?
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Postby RWSmith » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:39 pm

Scouting179 wrote:This is the fault of ALL OF THE ABOVE...the adults because they did not full their responsibilities and the candidate for not showing more interest and initiative.


WADR, I disagree... That ball could only be in one person's hands at a time... And I say, based solely on what I've read here, the boy (now a young man) was not responsible, to the greatest extent. The adult(s) took the responsibility and he/she/they should bear it. If this young man he presents a case, he'll win it. I tell my kids, "Your homework ain't "done" till it's turned in, the teacher records it, and I see the results, in writing. No exceptions." So, if one of my kids comes home and tells me the teacher said he/she'd have to get back to him/her... Well, I'm going back to the teacher, then... even though it's ultimately my kid's grade, and it hurts my kid... And I've seen it happen, more than once. And that's the ONLY reason I EVER question a teacher about homework because that homework is my kid's resposibility... but it's still the teacher's job to administrate the grades.
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Postby wagionvigil » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:59 pm

the Boy I mentioned did get his Eagle. But it was definitely the BOR that made the mistake.
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Postby cballman » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:51 pm

Ok a little off but here goes. I am a salesman if i go to a customer and he tell me he will call me back. what do I do starve waiting for the call. NO I get off my butt and call him back the very next week why because thats my job. now if a scout that was turned down for ANY rank. and was told that someone would call him back then I think that shows very bad judgement on all parties that was involved. If the kid if he really waqnted to be Eagle or any other rank should have called and asked what he needed the very next day. I am sorry tha a person in charge told the child that he would call him and he needs to be repreimanded very sternly and told he does not need to be involved in any BOR again. why because the person is not interested in any childs scouting and just wanted to get away from the child. I think that when I tell a child that I will do something then I will do it come hell or highwater because if I and I say if I can let a child down because I just wanted to leave. then I as a leader have failed my self, my troop, and a child.
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Postby Rick Tyler » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:36 am

don wrote:Linda J
To start with, I agree he should have been turned down.
But do you think you showed him how to act like a scout at all times, or how to act durning a BOR?
Something seems wrong, if he got to the BOR with that attuuide, he has had a few BOR berore life?
Sounds like he got rubber stamped, just for putting up a front for a couple of minutes. How does this kid act during meetings and campouts?


The problem is that he GOT to the BOR. This is yet another case of a BOR trying to handle something that properly belonged at the Scoutmaster Conference. If the Scoutmaster signed off his conference and scout spirit requirements, the BOR really can't do anything other than examine the boy as he sits in front of them. It's the Scoutmaster's job to ascertain how he behaved at meetings and on campouts, not the BOR's.

I would also like to say that boys have bad days (just like adults). I saw a scout blow a BOR for monosyllabic answers, bizarre comments, and general un-cooperativeness. That same Scout now has over 35 MBs, 80 nights of camping, and is an inch from Eagle Scout. His make-up BOR was fine. You just never know...
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Postby ASM-142 » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:47 am

cballman wrote:Ok a little off but here goes. I am a salesman if i go to a customer and he tell me he will call me back. what do I do starve waiting for the call. NO I get off my butt and call him back the very next week why because thats my job. now if a scout that was turned down for ANY rank. and was told that someone would call him back then I think that shows very bad judgement on all parties that was involved. If the kid if he really waqnted to be Eagle or any other rank should have called and asked what he needed the very next day. I am sorry tha a person in charge told the child that he would call him and he needs to be repreimanded very sternly and told he does not need to be involved in any BOR again. why because the person is not interested in any childs scouting and just wanted to get away from the child. I think that when I tell a child that I will do something then I will do it come hell or highwater because if I and I say if I can let a child down because I just wanted to leave. then I as a leader have failed my self, my troop, and a child.

I agree with this 100%
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Postby Lynda J » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:05 am

This kid was a good kid most of the time. But he would get really bad attitude times. He had been going through a really hateful, almost mean natured period. Picking on the younger boys and such. He did his SMC and knew the material. The SM didn't sign him off on Scout Spirit requirement at first. He worked a little harder and went back for another conference, he also told the other boys he was sorry for his attitude and we set the BOR. He was just in a really funk mood that night and the board felt that he needed a real wake up. This boy is now one of our best kids.
He later ask one of the other leaders if he had really been that bad. He told him YES. THis boy is now working on his Eagle and I would take him in a heart beat.
Kids at this age go through some really tough emotional times. We all have to deal with them. But we also have to force them to realize that everyone has problems. And none of us have the right to take those problems out of others. And that we have to be responsible for our own actions.
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Postby West » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:46 pm

Guneukitschik wrote:We have a scout in our Troop who will be a 14 year old Eagle Scout. His mother is pushing him to complete everything asap! We have explained the whole process to her and the scout however, she still has filled out the Eagle scout application and wrote most of his Eagle project workbook....she said because his handwriting is so bad?

Any advice on how to handle this?

I think the scout should have to write everything.


I earned mine at 13. And I do say earned, not got. I was going to wait until I was older because it seemed the right thing to do. However, in my last converstaion with my Grandfather he told me to make sure I got my Eagle done, before I got to intrested in girls (Apparently he never finished his because he met my Grandma). 3 days later he died. That was the motivation I needed, and within a year I had my board of review. (That time was spent entirely on the project, which I had already planned the early stages of, just hadn't submitted it to the distrect for approval (the plan was to wait a couple years. I've never regretted that decision, I just wish he would have gotten to be there. People have often asked me if I felt I really earned it, and expressed doubt because I was so young. My project was a Soup Kitchen, the first in our area. My parents helped with physical labor, and I got a lot of advice from the pastor of our church. However the planning and leadership of the project all came from me. I think age has less to do with it then personal motivation and values. I also feel that the proof that a boy earned it is what he does after. If he's truely earned it he'll remain active, and help other scouts with their scouting career. Payback time I like to call it. Scouts (and church) made me the person I am today more then any other factors. So, 13 years later I'm still paying the orginization back. While in collage I served as the Advisor for a Venture post, and now I'm the charter orginization Rep (and much more involved then any other I've heard of) for a local Pack and Troop (the one I grew up in actually).

Nothing is more disapointing then seeing a boy get his Eagle and then never hearing from him again. That means we failed somewhere. The point isn't the Eagle Badge, it's devolping into the person who earns the Eagle. (Some of the best scouts I've ever known never even got close to Eagle.)
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Postby schneizenator » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:36 pm

I think the biggest challenge for any Eagle Scout is the project. For those scouts who are unmotivated and are getting their ranks "handed" to them, I think they will not be able to survive this ordeal (except for the select few with over-controling parents) Anyways, those scout who become Eagle Scouts prove that they can do things themselves. Yes, there are merit badge classes that you can go to and earn an easy Merit Badge in a day without very much memorization and comprhension, but I have yet to see, and it will be a sad day when this happens, a Eagle Project class, where scouts can go for a week or so and finish their project by the end of it.

The same goes for young Eagle Scouts-- 13, 14. I am a 13 year old Life Scout myself and I only need my Eagle project and one more Merit badge. Some people have said that scouts that are too young cannot meet the expectations of an Eagle Scout. The Eagle project is meant to prove that you can handle it and anyone who has fulfilled the requriements therein proves that they can be an Eagle Scout.

An age limit is nothing to base anything on. We let stupid adults vote; why not smart kids?
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Postby hacimsaalk » Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:34 am

if a boy cannot answer the questions asked of him, then he is not ready. and if he just totally flubs things then he should not pass. in our troop we have cracked down on some of these problems, b/c boys would be first class and when needed not know something from tenderfoot. and then there were boys who didnt know the oath, or the law or the motto, and we finally decided this is ENOUGH. so know if you dont know the scout oath AND law, you're done, you automatically fail
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Postby wagionvigil » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:02 am

Remember the BOR is not a review or a retest of the MB's or requirements. I realize some troops do this but that is not proper.
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Re: Board of Review-Ever Turn Down a Scout For Any Rank?

Postby Cowboy » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:49 pm

Our Troop stays pretty consistant with 10 -20 boys depending on time of year. We are in a small community, so most of the boys are from "Scout families" with an occasional new comer to scouting showing up. Our Troop Committee is made of mainly parents of Scouts. The SM "whoever he is" sees the boys for 1 1/2 hours each week and then on the monthly outings and summer camp. Now figure out for yourself who makes up the BOR. We adhere very strongly to the no parents rule, but you have the parents best friends sitting on that BOR and a Scout who "ACTS" with scout spirit while the SM is around. There is one boy in our Troop who has not earned many of his badges, nor has he shown scout spirit much of the time. He is now almost ready for his Eagle BOR. During his presentation of his Eagle project to the TC there was a lot of disention and his mother began crying asking why we were picking on him. Unfortunately this boy will receive (I did not say earn) his Eagle, and there is really nothing that we (those of us who know his true nature) can do about it. We have tried talking to concil and district, but when there are just a few saying negative and the rest saying positive, well....... I feel that there is a time for the BOR to decide if the Scout has truly met the requirements. The BOR should never be treated as "just a formality". It is a chance for additional people to decide if the requirements have been met. When I see a boy do something outside the scope of scout spirit, it should not be a matter of telling the SM and having him relay hearsay to the boy. It should be a matter of me telling the boy exactly why I am denying his advancement. Never shirk the responsibily placed on you by passing the buck to someone else.
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Re: Board of Review-Ever Turn Down a Scout For Any Rank?

Postby RWSmith » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:19 pm

Welcome to the forums, Cowboy.

Take advantage of the board's "Search" feature... You'll find years of conversations here; some of which, will relate to you concerns. Take your time getting settled in, too. You'll find lots of opinions, and even the occasional direction pointer. (Not a person; I mean a topic.)

P.S. Somebody might sit down w/ Mama and have a heart-to-heart, straight out. And then let it go at that.

You never know, man... this kid might surprise you. (It might be a few years down the road though. So, unless this kid is smokin' crack or robbing banks, I'd try to be patient.) At least, I hope so. :mrgreen:
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Re: Board of Review-Ever Turn Down a Scout For Any Rank?

Postby milominderbinder2 » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:38 pm

Cowboy wrote:...a Scout who "ACTS" with scout spirit while the SM is around... There is one boy in our Troop who has not earned many of his badges, nor has he shown scout spirit much of the time. He is now almost ready for his Eagle BOR.'.

Cowboy,

First, welcome to the forum.

The Scout Spirit requirements involves " living the Scout Oath ( or Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life." There is no requirement to show Scout Spirit in your Scouting life:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Scout_spirit

Six times the Scoutmaster has recommended this Scout for promotion including Eagle. If the boy was not ready for promotion those six times, is your problem with the Scout or the Scoutmaster? See the BSA Advancement Policies #33088:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Sc ... onferences

Your troop has had at least five Boards of Review with this boy. Hopefully the troop is following BSA Policy and having Boards of Review whether the Scout is advancing or not so they have had more like 16 Boards of Review for this Scout? See the BSA Advancement Policies #33088:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Boards_of_Review

If the Scout was not ready to advance but all of these past Boards of Review promoted the boy anyway, has the boy failed or did the troop fail the boy?

And through this time, the Scoutmaster was assigning the Scout to Merit Badge Counselors who would not follow the BSA requirements or Policy. Did the Scout fail to complete the merit badges or did the troop fail to provide proper counselors? Please see the BSA Advancement Policies #33088:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Me ... e_Policies

Now that the Scout is close to Eagle, you want the district or council to overturn the past failures:
* 21? merit badge counselors were assigned by the troop who should not have been assigned.
* 5 troop Boards of Review wrongly promoted this Scout.
* 6 troop Scoutmaster Conferences wrongly recommended this boy for promotion.

The Advancement Policies will show you why the district or council cannot overturn these thirty or so decisions the troop has made.

Through these years...

Has the Scout failed the troop or has the troop failed the Scout?

- Craig
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