Board of Review-Ever Turn Down a Scout For Any Rank?

Scout Badge, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle Palms.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

Postby Guneukitschik » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:24 am

We have a scout in our Troop who will be a 14 year old Eagle Scout. His mother is pushing him to complete everything asap! We have explained the whole process to her and the scout however, she still has filled out the Eagle scout application and wrote most of his Eagle project workbook....she said because his handwriting is so bad?

Any advice on how to handle this?

I think the scout should have to write everything.
Guneukitschik
 

Postby commish3 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:16 am

How about if the scout were to keyboard it?
commish3
 

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:23 am

All my scouts use their computers to write up their project books
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby scoutmasterbob » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:54 am

I had a similar situation, the Scouts mother did almost every thing related to his project, when we boarded him, we asked him to explain his project to the board, he could not, we asked him to recite the scout law, he could not, it is sad because the parents dont understand what a disservice they are doing to their sons, all they see is the prize. I wish I knew how to fix it, but until the parents understand that the goals of scouting are not the Eagle, but to have a well rounded, contributor to the community, not just another Eagle.
Bob Torkelson
Scoutmaster Troop 538
www.wx5troop538.homestead.com
Roundtable Staff since 1994
Eagle-1983
Woodsbadge-2000
Fox Patrol
Live The Oath!
scoutmasterbob
Star
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:19 am
Location: Woods Cross, Utah

Postby Guneukitschik » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:05 pm

I agree that any scout could type it....which would look more professional anyway....

I am concerned because I know that his mother most likely wrote the entire thing and the kid did very little.
Guneukitschik
 

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:30 pm

I feel sorry for the scout. I wonder if his Mother does his school work also! If he is not a challenged scout and he does not know the oath and laws he does not pass. The problem I have is why did it get this far? This young man could have been stopped at Star or Life or even First class.He just all of a sudden does not know the OAth and LAws.
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby commish3 » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:41 pm

I am concerned because I know that his mother most likely wrote the entire thing and the kid did very little.


We can't chose who the parents of the scout will be, nor can we control them, and neither can the scout.

It's important that the scout not be penalized for the errors of his parents.

Continue to counsel and mentor the Scout, and make decisons that favor him and not punish him for his parents actions.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to just do the best thing you can do. :)
commish3
 

Postby Lynda J » Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:43 pm

I feel sorry for him also. What on earth is going to happen to this boy when mama isn't there to do everything for him.

My Gran had the right idea. Raise our children like the birds. Have them, feed them, teach them to fly and forage for themselves then push them out of the nest and force them to use their own wings.
Lynda J
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:58 am
Location: Longhorn Council, TX

Postby evmori » Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:28 pm

The Scout is the one who must write up the project. Not mom. This is to be the Scout's work not mom's. She is not earning Eagle, the Scout is. Knowing she is the one who did the write-up I would take it, make a copy(for comparison purposes) review it then return it to her with needed revisions. I would also tell her at that point her son MUST complete the write-up himself. If he doesn't complete the write-up, keep giving it back till he does! Tell mom you will not accept it unless it is in his handwriting.
Ed Mori
1 Peter 4:10
evmori
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:24 pm
Location: Greater Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA

Postby ICanCanoeCanU » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:16 pm

Wait a minute - I'm confused? How or why has this scout made it to Life if his mother is doing everything? This also reflects on the SM Conference and BOR at the lower ranks. What happen to all the other chances to intercept?

Yet another example of the business decision by Nationals for the “First Year – First Class” campaign. This is the exact situation this type of thinking has promoted and why so many Eagles ARE BEING handed out to unqualified youth. The rank of Eagle is losing its value. How unfortunate for all!
ICanCanoeCanU
Eagle
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:12 am
Location: Otetiana Council, NY

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:19 pm

It is very important that we make sure scouts that do not deserve 2nd class or 1st class do not advance. Make the stand at the lower ranks NOT at Eagle.
I will use an example. If I observe a teacher for 10 years and always give them a good rating and all of a sudden I decide that they have really not been that good and give them a couple bad ratings with a dismissal recommendation I will loose in Court every Time. They just all of a sudden didn't change.
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby ICanCanoeCanU » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:30 pm

I agree with you! And that is my question - how did this scout advance to this point? Maybe this should be another string, since my battle within my troop continues about this issue?
ICanCanoeCanU
Eagle
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:12 am
Location: Otetiana Council, NY

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:21 pm

Guys that do this are no better than maybe worse than those that make up troop rules that affect advancement.
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby Guneukitschik » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:17 pm

ICanCanoeCanU wrote:Wait a minute - I'm confused? How or why has this scout made it to Life if his mother is doing everything?


I never said that the mother has done everything...I only said that I think she has done all/most of the kid's eagle project. I've seen pictures of the kids actually doing the physical labor part...however, I think she has basically done all of the planning, filling in the book, writing a report, etc.

The scout is not a bad kid....he attends most of the meetings, outings, etc. I know that he knows the merit badge info at least for the one's that I was the counselor for. He can say the oath, law and overall seems to set a good example as a scout. I just think Mom got a little too involved in the Eagle Scout Project? Maybe I'm completely wrong...but from where I sit...it definately looks that way.


I think the best way to handle it may be at the board of review when we can ask him some questions. I'm not sure that he would be rejected at the BOR for not actually writing the report on the project?
Guneukitschik
 

Postby optimist » Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:06 pm

Remember, the Scoutmaster's Conference serves this role, too, and it serves this role first. If the Scout hasn't done the work, the Scoutmaster should be explaining why the work is unacceptable. If this is all a matter of conjecture and you aren't sure, then the Scoutmaster should be the one who takes the lead in feeling the Scout out on this. If the Scoutmaster can't make the determination, then by all means have the Board of Review so that maybe more heads will have the opportunity to figure it out.

But this is the acception, not the rule. Scouts who go before a Board for advancement should have already received their Scoutmaster's stamp of approval. Then the Board's purpose becomes one of making sure all the "t"s are crossed and the "i"s are dotted along with seeing how good an experience the Scout is having in the unit and encouraging further progress.
optimist
Adv Chair
 
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:25 pm
Location: Atlanta Area Council

Postby ICanCanoeCanU » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:05 pm

My apologies! I went back to read the thread and took my view from the line stating that the mother is pushing him to complete everything ASAP. I now see where this does not claim that she’s done all the work up to this point. But I do stand behind the rest of my thread pertaining to this kind of situation overall.
ICanCanoeCanU
Eagle
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:12 am
Location: Otetiana Council, NY

Postby commish3 » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:34 am

Yet another example of the business decision by Nationals for the “First Year – First Class” campaign. This is the exact situation this type of thinking has promoted and why so many Eagles ARE BEING handed out to unqualified youth.


While I appreciate the sincerity of your emotion you might have a hard time proving that the problem really exists.

More than 95% of Scouts didn't make Eagle Last year. Thats hardly "handing them out". In the last nearly twenty years since First Class Emphasis was introduced that number has only changed by 2%.

You would think if First Class Emphasis had any effect on Eagle the numbers wold be much higher. Where the effects are seen is in retention of scouts in units that follow the First Class Emphasis Program. But maybe that is best left to another thread.
commish3
 

Postby scoutmasterbob » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:55 pm

I feel sorry for the scout. I wonder if his Mother does his school work also!


:cry: Sadly and just between you and me.....

I heard that this kids mother was bragging to another mother in the neighborhood, that she got an A an a report she wrote for her son :cry:

I should not be spreading rumors, but it is sad.......
Bob Torkelson
Scoutmaster Troop 538
www.wx5troop538.homestead.com
Roundtable Staff since 1994
Eagle-1983
Woodsbadge-2000
Fox Patrol
Live The Oath!
scoutmasterbob
Star
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:19 am
Location: Woods Cross, Utah

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:10 pm

If you think it is a bad thing in scouts you should deal with these people on a daily basis in school
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby Guneukitschik » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:32 pm

Yes....it seems as though some of the parents are trying to re-live their childhood through their children. BIG MISTAKE...which they will hopefully figure out before it's too late?
Guneukitschik
 

PreviousNext

Return to Scout Badge, Tenderfoot through Life, and Eagle Palms

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests