Guide to advancement

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Guide to advancement

Postby Fred Johnson » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:48 pm

Any news on the release of GTA, Guide to Advancement? I remember smtroop168 saying early fall 2011. Fall starts Sept 23rd. Just curious. :)
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:29 pm

Fred Johnson wrote:Any news on the release of GTA, Guide to Advancement? I remember smtroop168 saying early fall 2011. Fall starts Sept 23rd. Just curious. :)


About 30 days or so.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby 6yearscouter » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:11 pm

smtroop168 wrote:About 30 days or so.


You Sir are a TEASE! :lol:
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby RMM » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:42 pm

6yearscouter wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:About 30 days or so.


You Sir are a TEASE! :lol:


If you say it often enough, people will start to believe it :twisted:
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:43 pm

The contents of the GTA are finished and approved however the administrative process to get it through to actually be a book and on the web is much longer than I ever thought it would be (and which little old volunteer me has no input into). Plus add to it a new Eagle Workbook that must come out concurrently and other BSA pubs that are affected that need to be updated.

If you all remember the troubles with the last few MBs where the requirements were released early and had to be pulled off, then you can see how the Advancement guys want to get this right.

Also if you've paid close attention, a lot of the new items have been "forum tested" over the past few months and I added my "signature" to the bottom of all my posts.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby Fred Johnson » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:05 pm

oh oh... sounds like fall 2012. :cry:
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby FrankJ » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:05 pm

I heard that it has been pulled back to clarify the meaning of "scout" as used in the chess merit badge requirements.

I had a dog named scout once. Never could teach him the game. He kept taking the pieces off & burying them.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:20 pm

Plus there was a YP issue since Chess is a one-on-one game. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby RWSmith » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:39 pm

FrankJ wrote:I heard that it has been pulled back to clarify the meaning of "scout" as used in the chess merit badge requirements.

Uh, actually...

BSA wrote:Scout May be synonymous with the term "Boy Scout" or may be used to include Varsity Scouts and Boy Scouts (not Cub Scouts). Use on second reference or also in informal usage when the meaning is clearly understood. Capitalize "Scout" and all words beginning with "Scout" (such as "Scouting" and "Scouter") unless the meaning is not related to the Scouting movement.

FrankJ also wrote:I had a dog named [S]cout once. Never could teach him the game. He kept taking the pieces off & burying them.

Well, as long as they were his captures, I see no problem. :mrgreen:

What I want to know, is can he teach another dog to play? (Using Scouting's Teaching EDGE, of course.)
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby FrankJ » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:53 pm

Shamelessly copied from another scout email list....
As a member of our District Advancement Committee I received email earlier
this summer that contained the following:


"The Guide To Advancement (GTA) should be released this fall, but we are
allowed to begin implementing some of changes now at the Atlanta Area
Council. The GTA was approved at the national meeting a couple weeks ago,
so the content has been finalized. The GTA includes quite a bit of clarification
that was missing from previous advancement book incarnations. I think the
GTA is a huge step forward and includes (for the most part) lots of good
changes.

..... some of the changes that are coming:

Active in the Unit:
this has once again been redefined. The definition now includes being
registered with the BSA, not being dismissed from the unit, and meeting the
reasonable expectations of the unit. This means that units are now allowed to
set their own criteria provided it is reasonable. Reasonable will ultimately be
adjudicated by the board of review. If the Scout meets the unit's standard, he
is active. If he does not, he can provide a statement explaining why he didn't,
and the board of review can decide whether or not the reason he wasn't active
is acceptable and give him credit for the requirement.

Serve Actively in a Position of Responsibility:

this now follows a similar interpretation as active in the unit. The GTA states
that serving actively must involve some sort of impact. In most cases, merely
being present isn't impact.


Cat out the bag?
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:29 pm

Questions will pour in.

I feel like a panic monger and I don't like being like that. But it's been a very long wait for a key document that's been out of circulation way too long.

"reasonable criteria" ... "impact" ... There will be many debates about what the standards are now and if there are any BSA common standards now.

I look forward to seeing this new document. How long has it been unavailable for purchase? I've always said something is better than nothing. I hope that's still true.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby FrankJ » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:59 pm

You can download the current version(s) from scouting.org. When it comes to brass tacks that is the one you are supposed to be following.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:14 pm

How do I find it? Every time I've used the scouting.org search feature, it crashes. It's been crashing or returning junk results for years. Worthless. Try searching for "Advancement committee policies and procedures". It crashes.

If you have the link, that would be great.

Either way, it would be nice to know how I am supposed to find this myself as a lowly volunteer. Documents are hard to find on the scouting.org site.

For years, I've depended on this as it's the only thing I could easily find from BSA. Even then, you have to know to search with "Rank advancement" and not just advancement or boy scout advancement.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Boy ... ceFAQ.aspx

(forgot to add the link)
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby bnelso » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:58 pm

Do a Google.com search on:

advancement committee policies and procedures site:scouting.org
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:03 pm

FrankJ wrote:Shamelessly copied from another scout email list....
As a member of our District Advancement Committee I received email earlier
this summer that contained the following:


"The Guide To Advancement (GTA) should be released this fall, but we are
allowed to begin implementing some of changes now at the Atlanta Area
Council. The GTA was approved at the national meeting a couple weeks ago,
so the content has been finalized. The GTA includes quite a bit of clarification
that was missing from previous advancement book incarnations. I think the
GTA is a huge step forward and includes (for the most part) lots of good
changes.

..... some of the changes that are coming:

Active in the Unit:
this has once again been redefined. The definition now includes being
registered with the BSA, not being dismissed from the unit, and meeting the
reasonable expectations of the unit. This means that units are now allowed to
set their own criteria provided it is reasonable. Reasonable will ultimately be
adjudicated by the board of review. If the Scout meets the unit's standard, he
is active. If he does not, he can provide a statement explaining why he didn't,
and the board of review can decide whether or not the reason he wasn't active
is acceptable and give him credit for the requirement.

Serve Actively in a Position of Responsibility:

this now follows a similar interpretation as active in the unit. The GTA states
that serving actively must involve some sort of impact. In most cases, merely
being present isn't impact.


Cat out the bag?



Kinda/sorta...I think this individual is one of the reviewers. This wording on both of these is truncated as the actually paragraphs contain much more information and guidance. There are 4 pages in the book devoted to each of the Active and POR requirements. Also there have been many more word changes/editing since the National Meeting in May where the book was "approved".
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby xeratek » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:41 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Kinda/sorta...I think this individual is one of the reviewers. This wording on both of these is truncated as the actually paragraphs contain much more information and guidance. There are 4 pages in the book devoted to each of the Active and POR requirements. Also there have been many more word changes/editing since the National Meeting in May where the book was "approved".


The quoted information about the GTA is an excerpt from a report that I sent to my council advancement committee upon returning from the Philmont Training Center where the GTA was presented back in June. I have no doubt that some of the wording has been changed from the draft I have. smtroop168 is correct about there being significantly more information about the topics than the excerpt above. The guide is significantly longer and more in-depth that previous versions, which I think is a very good thing as it removes many of the opportunities for differences in interpretation. Hopefully we'll see the final product soon.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:05 am

leaders will be required to make allowances for those kids in band etc. We can all get along in this world. Yes the sports guys will not give so it is up to us scouters to be the big boys and help our scouts be well rounded. For those leaders that see the new rules as a way to force kids to give up their other activities you will be loosing scouts right and left. Chill and make it fun. Every boy in my troop was involved in several outside activities and we made it all work for the good of the boys.

Story: While Lodge Adv for Wagion in the late 90's I got a call from an election team at an election about a problem in a troop. Two boys had the days and nights and the rank but were not considered active so they were eliminated from the election sheet. The troop said their rules stated that to be active the boys Must participate in the Two Local parades. i told the team to leave and not have the election I would deal with it I found out the boys were in the parades but with the Middle School band. This is a case where the troops active rule went too far. I went the next week with the chief and held the election. By the way the lady in charge her son was not elected and he would have if these two boys would have been eliminated.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby FrankJ » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:39 am

If I understand the OA voting rules. The SM can keep a scout off the OA ballot for "Scout Spirit" reasons. Scout Spirit definition being left up to the SM. Once on the ballot & elected the scout cannot be removed short of removing him from scouting.

How does one scout being on the ballot effect the chances of another scout being elected to the OA? The troop can elect all eligible candidates.

I do agree that you should take in other activities into account when defining active. & am not really defending the troop's position.
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:38 am

Getting off topic but:

Eligibility
The Order of the Arrow membership requirements are:

Be a registered member of the Boy Scouts of America.
After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.
Youth must be under the age of 21, hold the BSA First Class rank or higher, and following approval by the Scoutmaster or Varsity team Coach, be elected by the youth members of their troop or team.


Nothing about being Active or having SM approval for Scout Spirit. SM approves the ballot based on the OA eligibility not the BSA Active rule

The "Active" requirement only applies to Star and Above rank requirements. Since you can be in the OA as a 1st Class all that is required is "Registered".
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Re: Guide to advancement

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:40 am

xeratek wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:Kinda/sorta...I think this individual is one of the reviewers. This wording on both of these is truncated as the actually paragraphs contain much more information and guidance. There are 4 pages in the book devoted to each of the Active and POR requirements. Also there have been many more word changes/editing since the National Meeting in May where the book was "approved".


The quoted information about the GTA is an excerpt from a report that I sent to my council advancement committee upon returning from the Philmont Training Center where the GTA was presented back in June. I have no doubt that some of the wording has been changed from the draft I have. smtroop168 is correct about there being significantly more information about the topics than the excerpt above. The guide is significantly longer and more in-depth that previous versions, which I think is a very good thing as it removes many of the opportunities for differences in interpretation. Hopefully we'll see the final product soon.


I especially hope so too. :)
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