MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

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MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby deweylure » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:53 am

i know discussions on requirements have taken place in the past just not sure where to post this so here it is

I know a scout who was working on Family Life with his troop. The SM who is the MBC had passed out a worksheet taken from the website . When the Scout turned in his sheet the MBC handed it back and said this is unacceptable it must be on the sheet I passed out . The worksheet was not the same as I presume the scout lost it .

Needless to say I am a MBC and the scouts mother knows me,and is asking questions because young son wants to call it quits due to the re occurring hassles with MB's in his troop .

I do believe this goes to adding on requirements . Once again an adult is being an impediment to a scout , I have suggested scout talk MBC then Mom,if needed. This way there is a lesson on interaction and problem solving.
There are clear rules for MBC i just hope everyone can get on the same page ,

Dewey
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Re: mbc requiring the use of worksheet he passed out only

Postby bnelso » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:39 am

The important thing is that the Scout do what the requirements say he must do (discuss, present, demonstrate, draw, etc.) to satisfy the requirement. There are no requirements on any merit badge that say you go to meritbadge.com download a worksheet, fill it out and hand it in. The worksheets are just that, worksheets to help the Scout satisfy the requirement at the appropriate time. But he has to do what the requirement says. That is what the MB counselor should be looking for.

If you don't like the MB counselor and he is adding to the requirements, then a Scout would normally have the option of going to his SM and asking for a new merit badge counselor

In this case, he or his parent should discuss this with the committee (maybe the committee advancement person and the committee chair). Your process is broken. Especially if the Scout is thinking about quitting.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby Quailman » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:14 am

deweylure - You joined this forum nearly five years ago. I'm surprised you don't recall seeing this discussed previously. MBCs are adding to the requirements if they require a scout to complete any worksheet. Decorum prohibits me from saying what the MBC is being if he requires a scout to fill out a particular worksheet.

Send this guy to remedial MBC Orientation. Hopefully he can be retrained and understand that what he's doing is wrong! wrong! wrong!

The scout does need to write down some information in order to complete this badge. But even the third requirement, which states "Prepare a list of your regular home duties or chores (at least five) and do them for 90 days. Keep a record of how often you do each of them." can be done by showing the MBC the family calendar from the fridge on which the scout marked off which days he did which chores. He does not need to use any paper provided by the counselor.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby ScoutMomGWRC » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:00 pm

and correct me if I am wrong, the scout doesn't even need to DO the chores...
and the merit badge counselor can ask where the scout has kept track of them and even if the scout says,
well, i didn't do any to keep track of..
then a discussion can be had about why that may not have been valuable to the family
but the requirement was still fulfilled, no?
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby bnelso » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:20 pm

No, he has to do the chores.

Prepare a list of your regular home duties or chores (at least five) and do them for 90 days. Keep a record of how often you do each of them.

http://scouting.org/sitecore/content/Ho ... -FAML.aspx
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby kwildman » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:23 pm

ScoutMomGWRC - If a scout doesnt do the chores i would not sign off on his card. Kind of goes against the scout 12 points of the scout law and is against the spirit of the merit badge. It is one thing if they miss a couple it does not require that every chore be met at some frequency but the scout should be making a reasonable effort.

Deweylure - I really dont think recommending that a scout use a particular form is adding to the requirements. If you work with a lot of kids it makes it easier to review. Also the intent is also to make it easier for the scout to do a good job tracking the work. There is nothing that says a scout cant switch MBCs if he is having a problem with one.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby bnelso » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:48 pm

...
Last edited by bnelso on Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby bnelso » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:49 pm

kwildman wrote:Deweylure - I really dont think recommending that a scout use a particular form is adding to the requirements. If you work with a lot of kids it makes it easier to review. Also the intent is also to make it easier for the scout to do a good job tracking the work. There is nothing that says a scout cant switch MBCs if he is having a problem with one.


Recommending is the same as requiring if you are requiring them to hand in the answers on your form, you are adding a requirement. That is against policy.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby ThunderingWind » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:19 pm

bnelso wrote:No, he has to do the chores.

Prepare a list of your regular home duties or chores (at least five) and do them for 90 days. Keep a record of how often you do each of them.

http://scouting.org/sitecore/content/Ho ... -FAML.aspx

That's kind of rough. My son does not have chores spelled out. We merely ask him to accomplish task XYZ or ABC. For us
it is things like, please select the menu for the weekend. Please prepare the desert for next Thursday. Help carry in the groceries
when I visit the Commissary & PX. Occasionally, I ask him to mow the lawn. Nothing spelled out as "Required, Must do every day"
lock step or die.

I would hope the MBC that helps kids like my son would be more forgiving than "Every Day or Fail." This is just not our family.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby Quailman » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:24 pm

It says nothing about "every day" either. It just says "Keep a record of how often you do each of them." Some are done weekly, some every few days. My son sorts socks whenever a load of laundry was done (He does his own laundry but sorts everyone's socks).
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby Fred Johnson » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:00 pm

MBs are not earned by filling out book reports and this isn't school. Worksheets might be useful for taking notes or writing down research, but few MB requirements require writing. Family Life does require handing in a "submitted report" for one of the requirements. Citz of Nation requires writing a letter to your senator or representatives. But otherwise ... like the Citz of Nation I counsel ... everything else is "discuss".

If the scout wants to hold his worksheets / notes for his own reference while we chat, that's fine. Otherwise, I really don't care about worksheets. I want to have a conversation (i.e. discussion) with the scout. If the scout invested time on a worksheet, I'll review it to be polite and recognize his effort. But otherwise, MBs should be completed without writing anything down in a worksheet.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby bnelso » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:42 pm

It is not uncommon that the very first time a boy writes down what he does and keeps track of it is for this meritbadge.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby cballman » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:54 pm

When I counsel a Merit badge I try to hand out the forms to each child. Not as a requirement but as a way to keep their ideas and things they have done in one handy place. I just wish that I had the the forms when I was in scouts. Sometimes we use these to help the kids not adding to requirements. But to do a child the way the MBC did was dead wrong.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:25 am

If a MBC has so many scouts, he needs a standardized form to keep up, he is counseling too many scouts. But these days of merit badge clinics and summer camp, that may be case.

On the other hand you need to pick your battles. If you otherwise like the MBC, I would just use the form. You could just transfer from what really use you use to the form in what 10 minutes. Is that really a big deal? If this was one example of how that MBC counsels among many, I would work with the the scout to find a better MBC. This might include a non-confrontational discussion with the advancement chair or SM about recruiting other MBCs.

I have been using google calendar with my son for last couple of years to keep track of what we do. He put his family life chores & personal fitness records on the calendar along with due dates for school work & other life events. I am not sure if he transferred it to a form to show his counselor or just showed him the calendar from his computer.

This requirement is a good example of needing MBCs how understand the program and use common sense in reading the requirements.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:15 pm

Have him ask the MB Counselor / SM for a new form, transfer records to that form, and hand it back in.

Pretty simple.

Now, if the MBC/SM refuses to give him a new form, I would have him ask for the contact info for a new MBC. This might get a bit tricky if the SM thinks it is his way or the highway, but that is a bridge crossed if it is reached.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby Quailman » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:09 pm

Whoa! I just noticed that the MBC is the SM. What a shame.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby kwildman » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:47 pm

it does say "keep a record" so asking the scout to provide you with the record is not adding to the requirement. If he doesn't have a good record you can explain to him what it lacks and have him redo it. Personally, i would chose to save the scout time and give him a record that is well organized.

I find it almost comical that someone would suggest that requiring a kid to actually do the requirements would be "adding to the requirements". But i suppose that "show me your work" or asking for some form of verification that the scout completed the work is adding to the requirements. :roll: I should just sign off every scout that says he meets the camping requirements without asking for confirmation from his SM. After all no where in the merit badge book does it REQUIRE a scout to provide proof.

Part of being a MBC is to help mentor the scouts. I give them a form with a suggested format. I also tell them it might be easier for them to put it a calendar application or a spreadsheet. But I do require a record and I add the requirements that it be organized and legible.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:08 pm

What some here seem to be missing is that yes, it is fine to give the scout a worksheet as a RESOURCE to use if he wishes. However, unless it specifies in the requirement that only a specific form can be used, it is really not OK to require a scout to use only the worksheet/form that you give him and nothing else.

What the opening poster stated was that the scout in question DID complete the requirement. He made a list of his duties, and kept a record. He just used his own form, and not the one the MBC gave him.

Because the scout used his OWN form, the MBC refused to sign off on the requirements as being completed.

This is wrong.

However, since the work has all been done, the best thing for the scout to do might have been to simply suck it up, ask for a new form, and be done with it.

Especially as the Merit Badge Counselor is his SM, and he will have to work with this person on an ongoing basis.

As someone said - you have to learn to pick your battles.
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby Quailman » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:49 pm

Any guesses as to whether or not the SM/MBC would require him to start keeping track as of the day he gets the new form rather than copy what he had done?
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Re: MBC Requiring Scouts Use Worksheet That He Handed Out, Only

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:02 pm

I did not noticed that the SM was the MBC. Might be time to find a new SM. :) I am a little philosophically opposed to SMs (not ASMs) being MBC to begin with. Just my philosophy, nothing in the official rules, I just think a SM's time is better spent doing other things.

Not to read between the lines but it might be the SM is frustrated with the this scouts inability to follow directions in other matter.. Nothing Dewey said indicates that this is the case though.

This is not one of the requirements that require you to talk to the MBC first. A well organized scout might come with this requirement already done.
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