OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

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OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby sshulta » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:13 pm

Our Troop has been proud to recently have several youth serving in Lodge Leadership roles. A disappointing circumstance however seems to be significantly diminished Troop involvement. As Scoutmaster, I'd like to encourage and also expect these young men to remain at least somewhat active in the Troop which always needs youth leader role models. Has anyone else encountered this problem and how best to motivate these young men to stay active in their Troop ?
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby Quailman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:08 pm

If it were my current troop, I'd say it's a symptom of the troop not having as much to offer the boys relative to OA.

Try a SM conference with each one to see what you can do to get them more active.

[edit] Forgot to add, if they're in lodge leadership roles, their available time may be constrained so it's something you'll just have to live with. Just try to encourage them to attend meetings.[/edit]
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:54 am

Welcome to the Forum.

SMC with each is a good idea.

Ages? Ranks?

Are these scouts currently in PORs in the troop? Are they "Actively Serving" and fulfilling their roles to meet their rank requirement? I assume one of them your OA rep?

Being Active in the Lodge or even dual registered as a Venture and not attending meetings is not much different than sports, jobs or other activities we all have to deal with but since its scouts somehow its supposed to make us feel better even though it can have the same effect on our troops.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby WeeWillie » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:29 pm

When a Scout becomes an Arrowman he assumes additional responsibilities.

“An Arrowman’s first duty is to his unit. We must always keep in mind that a primary role of the Order of the Arrow is to strengthen units and help units to succeed, particularly in the outdoor phase of their program.” Order Of The Arrow Guide For Officers And Advisers

As Scouting’s National Honor Society, our purpose is to:
• Recognize those who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives and through that recognition cause others to conduct themselves in a way that warrants similar recognition.
• Promote camping, responsible outdoor adventure, and environmental stewardship as essential components of every Scout’s experience, IN THE UNIT, year-round, and in summer camp.
• Develop leaders with the willingness, character, spirit and ability to ADVANCE THE ACTIVITIES OF THEIR UNITS, our Brotherhood, Scouting, and ultimately our nation.
• Crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others.
An Arrowman who is no longer involved in his unit is no longer fulfilling the promise he made during his Ordeal and Brotherhood. SMs and Lodge/Chapter Advisors need to emphasize that obligation. SMs need to help Arrowman meet his obligations to his troop and OA. That may include helping our Arrowman with time management and prioritization.

One of the reasons troops don’t support OA is that it siphons off the older Scouts. Both SMs and OA Advisors need to work together to see that doesn't happen.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby razor_strop » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:52 am

Well put, Mike, and I believe this ties in well with an earlier discussion regarding folk's opinions on how active an Arrowman should be in his Lodge. To expand on that a bit, since BSA is (in my view) all about positive reinforcement rather than negative consequences, our Lodge leadership recently instituted a neat program to encourage greater participation in Lodge activities. There is a special Lodge flap a brother can earn by completing activities above and beyond the standard member involvement of maybe a general membership meeting and a weekend or two a year. Some examples include working kitchen crew for two events, being trained and serving as an Elangomat for an Ordeal weekend and recruit an Elangomat, and serving on an election team. I think this is a creative way to encourage Lodge members to become more involved, and likely more effective than browbeating or creating an atmosphere of "unworthiness" for those with low attendance.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby Bill Pitcher » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:04 pm

Razor_strop, this sounds like the " Ole point system, to me!" and that was banned years ago (but I LOVED it when I did it as an Ordeal Brother!!).
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:44 pm

Wagion #6 suggest that each member join one of the committees and get involved with the lodge. We also have special weekend patches that you must be present to get.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby razor_strop » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:40 am

Bill Pitcher wrote:Razor_strop, this sounds like the " Ole point system, to me!" and that was banned years ago (but I LOVED it when I did it as an Ordeal Brother!!).


Bill, I'm not familiar with the "point system"; could you explain it?
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby Bill Pitcher » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:20 pm

R_S, to move from Ordeal to Brotherhood, one earned points for: returning to OA events, participating on the dance team, making a piece of costume, having a role in a ceremony, going to a conclave or NOAC, etc., etc. When a certain number of points were reached, you could then procede (20 points, I think. This was in the 60's) on the trail to Brotherhood. It got new brothers involved and reduced the "Sash and Dash" group. We felt "part of the experience" of being a Brother.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:34 pm

Bill Pitcher wrote:R_S, to move from Ordeal to Brotherhood, one earned points for: returning to OA events, participating on the dance team, making a piece of costume, having a role in a ceremony, going to a conclave or NOAC, etc., etc. When a certain number of points were reached, you could then procede (20 points, I think. This was in the 60's) on the trail to Brotherhood. It got new brothers involved and reduced the "Sash and Dash" group. We felt "part of the experience" of being a Brother.


This of course was back in the day when you needed 50 days/nights for camping MB. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:12 am

Bill Pitcher wrote:This of course was back in the day when you needed 50 days/nights for camping MB.


Yeah, and "lots of partials!"
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby razor_strop » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:34 am

Thanks Bill; interesting bit of OA history there.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:05 am

razor_strop wrote:Thanks Bill; interesting bit of OA history there.


Curious...

Bill...was that you specific lodge rule?

Wagion...do you have any reference books prior to my 1965 OA HB that details this?
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby Bill Pitcher » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:20 am

Matt, it was the rule in my lodge as a kid in upstate NY, and apparently in my current lodge in downstate NY. The "elders" here still talk about it. Don't know if it was wide-spread or not. Anyone else know ( the old point system, that is)?
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:35 am

Matt that was never in any OA book. The road to brotherhood is the same today as it was in 1963 When I took mine. In those days you did have to have 6 hours of cheerful service to be able to get a flap. Also you were restricted to one Brotherhood chenille per year and 12 hours of CFS. This varied by lodge. Anicus Lodge allowed one chenille per lifetime. Wagion allowed one neckerchief per lifetime those rules are all now gone.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:53 am

Thanks. Wonder if the OA will relook their "Active" definition when the BSA issues their new one.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:31 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Thanks. Wonder if the OA will relook their "Active" definition when the BSA issues their new one.


i would like them to actually say if your dues are not paid and you do not attend any lodge activities you must remove the OA Flaps from your uniform.
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby Bill Pitcher » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:45 pm

I can remember some of us walking around troop inspection lines with the OA "dues paid" lists 15 years ago, and removing flaps from uniforms if the dues weren't paid. Can't do that anymore! This lodge that I'm in now had unlimited ordeal (or trading) flaps, and then issued only 2 Brotherhood (for life) and 2 Vigil (for life). If you lost one . . . you loose! My old Lodge had/has limited flaps issued, maybe every 2 years and you only can get one by attending a Lodge activity. They have a Lodge Store available at every event. Maybe we should create an OA Lodge History thread???
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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby kwildman » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:29 am

wagionvigil wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:Thanks. Wonder if the OA will relook their "Active" definition when the BSA issues their new one.


i would like them to actually say if your dues are not paid and you do not attend any lodge activities you must remove the OA Flaps from your uniform.



I would like it to say that the Chapter Chief can cut the patch off if you are not a dues paid member.

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Re: OA Involvement in lieu of Troop Involvement

Postby razor_strop » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:14 am

Geez, I thought a Scout was helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, etc. :(
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