Appropriate use of an old OA sash

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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:29 pm

The merit badge sash is worn over the right shoulder, with the tail on the left hip. The OA sash is worn the same way, however some elect to put the sash under the shoulder epaulet to prevent it from falling off.

You may only wear one sash at a time. OA sash may only be worn during an OA event.

Only merit badges may be worn on the front of the MB sash. Camp patches may be displayed on the back of the sash, but rank patches may not be displayed on the sash at any time. Merit badges may be displayed in rows of three across, to present a neat and uniform appearance.

The OA sash may not have any other items attached or ornamentation OTHER than the 50th anniversary patch. If you hold this patch, you will know where to display said patch.

NO sash is to be worn draped over the belt.

This has been discussed before in this forum SO please use the search feature and find that also. I would tell you but you would not get to use the search feature which we all use a lot.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby japhmi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:00 pm

wagionvigil wrote:The merit badge sash is worn over the right shoulder, with the tail on the left hip. The OA sash is worn the same way, however some elect to put the sash under the shoulder epaulet to prevent it from falling off.

Well, the insignia guide says that the OA sash is to be worn under the epaulet:
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10L.aspx wrote:Ordeal sash, No. 02167, and long, No. 02168, Scout or Scouter, worn over right shoulder, under epaulet of tan shirt. (OA sash is never worn on belt or with merit badge sash.)
...
"Legend strips" or "sash backs" are not official and may not be worn on the sash or with the uniform. The OA sash is not worn with the merit badge sash.


wagionvigil wrote:OA sash may only be worn during an OA event.

Yep, as per the OA handbook, I was just musing if this was a more recent change in the handbook or if I've been doing it wrong for almost 20 years :shock:
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:06 pm

japhmi wrote:
wagionvigil wrote:The merit badge sash is worn over the right shoulder, with the tail on the left hip. The OA sash is worn the same way, however some elect to put the sash under the shoulder epaulet to prevent it from falling off.

Well, the insignia guide says that the OA sash is to be worn under the epaulet:
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10L.aspx wrote:Ordeal sash, No. 02167, and long, No. 02168, Scout or Scouter, worn over right shoulder, under epaulet of tan shirt. (OA sash is never worn on belt or with merit badge sash.)
...
"Legend strips" or "sash backs" are not official and may not be worn on the sash or with the uniform. The OA sash is not worn with the merit badge sash.


wagionvigil wrote:OA sash may only be worn during an OA event.

Yep, as per the OA handbook, I was just musing if this was a more recent change in the handbook or if I've been doing it wrong for almost 20 years :shock:



I took my Ordeal in 1963 and that is the way it was even then
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby kwildman » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:22 pm

OA handbook. Sash is only to be worn at OA functions. the lodge flap signifies membership for other occasions.

This is one of my pet peeves as we have a lot of sash and dash. Really irritates me when i visit a units court of honor and they have 12 kids wearing ordeal sashes and the SM says that they are OA and they haven't paid dues in 2 years.

I kindly remind the kids that if they do not pay their dues the are not entitled to wear either the sash or the flap. I've actually got a few to pay their dues and one to do his brotherhood.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:23 am

Also a reminder if you Lodge dues are not current you are not permitted to wear anything OA items
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby razor_strop » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:31 am

Wagion, is current lodge membership the criteria for wearing any OA insignia? I noticed in the Insignia Guide that it says the Universal Arrow Ribbon (or as they call it, the OA membership emblem) is worn to signify "national membership". Could this be read to mean that you can wear the UAR if you are an OA member "at large", since you aren't a member of a specific lodge but are an arrowman for life?
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:47 am

You dues must be paid somewhere. When you pay for your lodge I believe it is round $$$ per person goes to National OA . The Universal emblem/ribbon was actually removed from national Supply for a year for some unknown reason. I have really never heard of an OA member at large as you can only be a member where you have your primary registration. I know of a couple members that lived many miles away from here but kept their Primary Registration in this council so they could still be a member of Wagion#6
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby japhmi » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:46 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Also a reminder if you Lodge dues are not current you are not permitted to wear anything OA items

Which is probably the only policy that I not only see as dumb, but actually makes me angry.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby Quailman » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:58 pm

Huh? If you do't recharter (pay your BSA dues), do you think you should be allowed to wear the field uniform? This is no different.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby tonkatim » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:05 pm

Two things. If you do not have a Ritual Team at your Webelos cross-over to Scouts you should. Find some way to get them there. It was awesome and no I did not wear my old sash. My son has not stopped talking about it with his other friends from other Packs.

And secondly, our Lodge does not charge dues. I know this because I had to ask several people and got several answers before I got the correct one.

What to do to consider myself active? I am not associated with Boy Scouts yet and have been away for 30 years. Well, I stumbled upon a group in my Council that calls themselves the Quartermaster Corps. They donate their time and other things I am sure to the Council as far as maintenance and upkeep goes. They have weekend gatherings that coincide with the OA Fall and Spring weekends. This avenue I will pursue.

So, K, sometimes when you only see slackers, there are in fact Scouts and Scouters that are confused and looking to be more involved. Have a look at how you are putting the word out and is it enough.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby japhmi » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:48 pm

Quailman wrote:Huh? If you do't recharter (pay your BSA dues), do you think you should be allowed to wear the field uniform? This is no different.

Completely different. The lodge flap says "I was selected by my peers for this honor." It doesn't, to me at least, say "I happened to have mailed in my check this year."
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:13 pm

I am hitting two things here. One the flap identifies you as a Lodge Member and if your dues are not paid you are not a member simple as that. Not an arguable. That is policy.
Two Dues have to come from somewhere because the lodge is Charged for each member of the lodge when the lodge recharters with national. I cannot see a council paying those dues out of the council budget.
For the member that says their lodge does not charge dues what lodge is it I can check that out?
I have access :twisted:
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby kwildman » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:21 pm

The lodge flap says that you were selected by your peers and that you accepted an OBLIGATION. If you are not paying your dues than you are not a member in good standing and not entitled to wear the flap or the sash. The honor is for the youth as they are elected by their peers. If you were an adult you were selected by your committee not as an Honor but rather as a person that will actively promote the OA and support the youth in your unit by making sure they get to OA events, etc. The adult selection criteria specifically states that it is not to be used as an Honor or a Reward.

The youth that sash and dash are not honoring their peers that selected them.

Sorry if I sound negative but I strongly believe that the OA is a great organization and the youth that are actively involved are the best that scouting has to offer. I don't think it is too much to ask them at a minimum to pay their dues to support the program if they want to associate with it by wearing a flap or sash.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby japhmi » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:30 pm

wagionvigil wrote:I am hitting two things here. One the flap identifies you as a Lodge Member and if your dues are not paid you are not a member simple as that. Not an arguable. That is policy.
Two Dues have to come from somewhere because the lodge is Charged for each member of the lodge when the lodge recharters with national. I cannot see a council paying those dues out of the council budget.
For the member that says their lodge does not charge dues what lodge is it I can check that out?
I have access :twisted:

Well, it says next to location 'greater st louis' which is Shawnee. Quick google turns up their by-laws, under finances, the following:
http://www.shawneelodge.org/by-laws/ wrote:In order to provide financial support for operation, the assessments shall be added to the registration fee for each of the Lodge events.

No mention of dues.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby tonkatim » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:33 pm

Shawnee Lodge 51 and you can see my frustration with the flow of information to someone who is actively trying to become involved with the OA without being active in a Boy Scout Troop. Think to yourself, how do we get information out? Do we really only get information to those already in the loop? Scouters are usually an involved lot and if they are not doing something correctly it could be for reasons other than what it first appears.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby tonkatim » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:40 pm

Thanks j. I guess I would have paid my dues if I registered for an event. Now to investigate that Quartermaster route that I found while surfing the Council website.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:42 pm

There are two Lodges in That Council. You must be a registered member of scouting to get any information. So you register with the council and then get back in the lodge.
As to an assessment on activities only those that actually attend those activities are paying the extra so if you do not attend you are not paying. I have an email out to a Region chief about dues and will find out that information.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby japhmi » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:23 pm

kwildman wrote:The lodge flap says that you were selected by your peers and that you accepted an OBLIGATION. If you are not paying your dues than you are not a member in good standing and not entitled to wear the flap or the sash.

That's the way the rules are written now, but I'm saying that I disagree with them. There's nothing in our OBLIGATION that says that the youth have a duty to do things in and for the Order. I knew several youth growing up who never did much in the Order, but they served their home troop with distinction that shows that they deserved the honor given them by their peers.

In my humble opinion, requiring dues for the 'right' to wear the flap is like if national required people to pay dues to the NESA to wear the Eagle rank or knot.

kwildman wrote:The honor is for the youth as they are elected by their peers. If you were an adult you were selected by your committee not as an Honor but rather as a person that will actively promote the OA and support the youth in your unit by making sure they get to OA events, etc. The adult selection criteria specifically states that it is not to be used as an Honor or a Reward.

For an adult, it is to be given in regards to whom they think will support the order. That's not a requirement for the youth. For the youth it's an honor.

kwildman wrote:The youth that sash and dash are not honoring their peers that selected them.

If they serve their unit well, and live up to what is expected of an Arrowman, then they are doing no disservice to their peers if they are not active in OA activities.

kwildman wrote:Sorry if I sound negative but I strongly believe that the OA is a great organization and the youth that are actively involved are the best that scouting has to offer. I don't think it is too much to ask them at a minimum to pay their dues to support the program if they want to associate with it by wearing a flap or sash.

I think that the OA is a great program, and I loved every minute of being a youth active in the OA. I don't think people should be required to pay a yearly fee to wear a sign of an honor given to them. Many great scouts decide that they can't be active in the OA, but that doesn't diminish their honor by being elected by their peers.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:27 pm

japhmi wrote:
kwildman wrote:The lodge flap says that you were selected by your peers and that you accepted an OBLIGATION. If you are not paying your dues than you are not a member in good standing and not entitled to wear the flap or the sash.

That's the way the rules are written now, but I'm saying that I disagree with them. There's nothing in our OBLIGATION that says that the youth have a duty to do things in and for the Order. I knew several youth growing up who never did much in the Order, but they served their home troop with distinction that shows that they deserved the honor given them by their peers.

In my humble opinion, requiring dues for the 'right' to wear the flap is like if national required people to pay dues to the NESA to wear the Eagle rank or knot.

kwildman wrote:The honor is for the youth as they are elected by their peers. If you were an adult you were selected by your committee not as an Honor but rather as a person that will actively promote the OA and support the youth in your unit by making sure they get to OA events, etc. The adult selection criteria specifically states that it is not to be used as an Honor or a Reward.

For an adult, it is to be given in regards to whom they think will support the order. That's not a requirement for the youth. For the youth it's an honor.

kwildman wrote:The youth that sash and dash are not honoring their peers that selected them.

If they serve their unit well, and live up to what is expected of an Arrowman, then they are doing no disservice to their peers if they are not active in OA activities.

kwildman wrote:Sorry if I sound negative but I strongly believe that the OA is a great organization and the youth that are actively involved are the best that scouting has to offer. I don't think it is too much to ask them at a minimum to pay their dues to support the program if they want to associate with it by wearing a flap or sash.

I think that the OA is a great program, and I loved every minute of being a youth active in the OA. I don't think people should be required to pay a yearly fee to wear a sign of an honor given to them. Many great scouts decide that they can't be active in the OA, but that doesn't diminish their honor by being elected by their peers.

The lodge is charged for each member when they renew their charter so that money must come form somewhere. The section now charges each lodge a per member fee to help maintain the section. Again that must come from somewhere.
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Re: Appropriate use of an old OA sash

Postby kwildman » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:44 pm

How many scouts wear their uniform if they havent paid their dues to the BSA? How many scouters wear that eagle knot on a uniform if they are not paying dues to the BSA. Everyone chartered to a unit or that is a district member at large has dues whether they are paid by the unit or personally. Sorry, but no dues means you are not a member and are not entitled to anything other than the opportunity to pay your dues and become a member again.

Exactly what "OA" service do these youth provide to their unit by wearing a flap or a sash? The OA is more than simply service to their unit. It's kind of like that Harley saying... "If I have to explain than you wouldnt understand".
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