Valid Election???

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Valid Election???

Postby ronin718 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:34 am

Last night our troop was scheduled to have our OA election. Photo ballots printed, plenty of boys including the Chapter Chief in attendance. Ballots were distributed, voted on, and collected. The Chapter Chief sealed the ballots in an envelope.

Only one slight problem... The Election team never showed.

Question on the table... Was this a valid election, or will we have to go through it again?
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:52 pm

ronin718 wrote:Last night our troop was scheduled to have our OA election. Photo ballots printed, plenty of boys including the Chapter Chief in attendance. Ballots were distributed, voted on, and collected. The Chapter Chief sealed the ballots in an envelope.

Only one slight problem... The Election team never showed.

Question on the table... Was this a valid election, or will we have to go through it again?


Seems like the Chapter Chief being there can handle the issue.

Photo Ballots??? C'mon :roll:

Why not announce the results right there?

Sometimes (wait all the time) the OA Election Process wears me out.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby Bill Pitcher » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:26 pm

ronin718 wrote:Last night our troop was scheduled to have our OA election. Photo ballots printed, plenty of boys including the Chapter Chief in attendance. Ballots were distributed, voted on, and collected. The Chapter Chief sealed the ballots in an envelope.

Only one slight problem... The Election team never showed.

Question on the table... Was this a valid election, or will we have to go through it again?


The OA handbook says " The Order should be represented by a two-or three member team from the lodge or chapter elections committee", doesn't say HAS TO BE. There is a script to follow where elligibility requirements are explained, the opportunity to back out of the election candidacy is offered, the history of the OA explained, and when the Ordeals are offered by the lodge.
Was this all explained and offered? If so, then the Chapter Chief did a great job. Election results are usually revealed at a Spring Camporee or Camp setting "Tap Out" before the Summer Camp sessions. That is when the potential candidates learn that they were elected.
If the candidates were all elligible, the election was held as a secret ballot by 50% of the troop . . . then it's good. Sometimes the person running the election asks for "OA Brothers" from the troop having the election, to step in and help run it if the team doesn't show. Remember, this is truely a "Boy Run organization" and sometimes #*/@ happens!!
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:41 pm

smtroop168 wrote:
ronin718 wrote:Last night our troop was scheduled to have our OA election. Photo ballots printed, plenty of boys including the Chapter Chief in attendance. Ballots were distributed, voted on, and collected. The Chapter Chief sealed the ballots in an envelope.

Only one slight problem... The Election team never showed.

Question on the table... Was this a valid election, or will we have to go through it again?


Seems like the Chapter Chief being there can handle the issue.

Photo Ballots??? C'mon :roll:

Why not announce the results right there?

Sometimes (wait all the time) the OA Election Process wears me out.


Wagion's policy has always been not announce the results unless the SM really wants to.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby kwildman » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:48 pm

the chapter chief should be fine provided he is not a member of that unit. We typically dont want people on the election team from the unit doing the election. The only people that know the results are the Election Team and the SM. The SM can do what ever he wants with the info but we encourage them to wait for the callouts.

Our elections require an OA adult be present (remember that adult is >21 in OA).

i have completed about a dozen elections and have several next week. The youth elections arent bad its having to chase down the SMs and CCs trying to get the adult forms and letter of recommendations back that is frustrating to me. But hey that is my WWW.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby Mrw » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:12 pm

Interesting....Our election results have always been announced as soon as the tallying is done....

It may be something to do with attending an out-of-council summer camp?
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby ronin718 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:54 pm

Chapter Chief is a member of our troop. He didn't review the ballots, he simply collected and sealed them in an envelope.

Photo ballot because our troop is so large (~120) that a concern we have is boys know faces or names but not faces AND names. When we were only 60-70 boys, it was typical to elect 10+ boys each year. As the troop as grown, the numbers have dropped. Highly unusual, especially last year when we only elected two out of 25 eligible. SM thought perhaps if we put names to faces for the boys voting, it might help those truly deserving to actually be selected.

Adult OA rep was present, just not the youth team members.

Our results are typically announced either at the March CoH or a couple weeks prior to Ordeal (May) so boys can plan to attend.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby Reasonable Rascal » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:46 pm

We had our elections last week, possibly (though not probably) the first this troop has ever had. Long story but basically the previous SM wasn't into it as it were.

Of 12 boys we had 5 eligible and 3 were elected with enough votes. The Chapter Adviser chose to reveal the results then and there. I'd have rather she'd merely informed the SM and the boys await the tap out in April at spring camporee. In my view it adds to the mystic that is an essential part of OA, the supposed secretiveness, the costumed members seeming to search each of the boys and apparently randomly select those they thought worthy. But then that's probably just me.

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Re: Valid Election???

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:50 am

Reasonable Rascal wrote:We had our elections last week, possibly (though not probably) the first this troop has ever had. Long story but basically the previous SM wasn't into it as it were.

Of 12 boys we had 5 eligible and 3 were elected with enough votes. The Chapter Adviser chose to reveal the results then and there. I'd have rather she'd merely informed the SM and the boys await the tap out in April at spring camporee. In my view it adds to the mystic that is an essential part of OA, the supposed secretiveness, the costumed members seeming to search each of the boys and apparently randomly select those they thought worthy. But then that's probably just me.

RR

I agree Totally She should not unless the SM said to do so. We only call out/tapout at summer camp and the first opportunity For their Ordeal is August. Wagion has Ceremonies at all our weekends August,October April and June. We also never tell someone they are a Vigil Honor. They are called out during ceremonies at the weekends. If they fail to show up for a weekend they are never called out. By staying with the Past OA Methods we have an extremely strong lodge. Weekend attendance averages 200 members in attendance. We have Our annual Banquet coming up next week but it is not just a banquet. It starts at 11:00 with the Executive Board meeting followed with Committee training, Games, Swimming, Patch Trading, Chinese Auction topped off with the banquet. After the eating we have a lodge meeting and the highlight of the evening is the awarding of the Thunderbird Award (our own lodge award which the founders award was modeled after) to one adult and one youth.
The money from the Chinese auction and sometimes for special items we have out right bidding all goes to pay for the youth going to NOAC.
BTW we have an active charter member of the Lodge
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby ThunderingWind » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:07 am

It seems many troops here announce it right away.

Why: Because the kids may not be at the Spring Camporee Tap out (our Troop will not this year due to our large Fundraiser) and the parents need 60 days notice to try to work the Ordeal weekends into the very hectic lifestyle everyone seems to live here in the Metro DC area.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby Quailman » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:58 am

We let parents know if the boys need to be present for tap-out. "Billy, you really should go next weekend. You missed the last campout, and your mother and I need some alone time." Or whatever.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby kwildman » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:26 am

ronin - not sure about your lodge but mine requires us to have the SM sign the paperwork stating that the elected meet the requirements. The paper work must be signed by the election conducter, the OA adult, and the SM. The SM is then left with a copy of the paperwork. If you have concerns i would contact the chapter or lodge advisor.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby jr56 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:56 pm

The same thing happened in my troop awhile back, the election team just didn't show up. We held the elections anyway and turned the results into the council. I also had a situation a couple of years ago where the OA ceremony team was supposed to help perform a bridging ceremony and just didn't show. Things like this are giving the OA a bad name.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby deweylure » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:03 am

i suggest announcing soon after the election . One Troop I was in, The SM decided no to announce then the scouts had conflicts with church activities and could not attend the Induction Ceremony. This also happened to the adult elected . The sm's reason was he wanted it to be a surprise . the surprise was on him and then some minor conflict, between scout and and parents occurred .

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Re: Valid Election???

Postby FrankJ » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:01 pm

We normally wait for tap out to tell ours. If need be the parents will be told that it would be a good idea for the scout to come. If they cannot be there, it does not change the fact that they have been elected, so they are told after tap out.

As far as a ceremony team not showing... If they have truly made a commitment, they should be there or cancel with reasonable notice. But a lot of ceremony teams or thin & all of them are made up of boy volunteers. A lot of time they get committed by adults with little connection to the team.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby wagionvigil » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:11 pm

If a scout is elected and misses the tapout they may be tapped at the Ordeal. WE have tapped many right before starting the journey. I am for keeping it a secret from then scout but the parent should be told.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby wjturner » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:42 pm

Chapter Chief is a member of our troop. He didn't review the ballots, he simply collected and sealed them in an envelope.


I thought nationals required the ballots to be counted immediately, with the SM present, and then something about if nobody is elected, or has that changed in the 15 years or so since I was last active?
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby kwildman » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:23 pm

ballots should be counted immediately by the election team. The election team should not contain members of the unit holding the election. The election results are then given to the SM who signs off the form. It is the SMs discretion if he wants to announce the results, wait for the district call out, or wait for summer camp. However, our lodge does send out the information to all candidates prior to the first ordeal. If the SM is waiting past the first ordeal then we recommend that he tell the scouts parents to be on-guard for the letters coming in the mail.

wjturner - if no one is elected then the form is noted as no youth being elected, all spots are X'd out, and the SM signs the form.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby japhmi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:06 pm

I remember as a boy how everyone hated doing elections.

That being said, telling the SM and then letting him make the call is the best way to go. In the past, the official letters from the lodge would arrive before camporee (where the official callout was), so that kind of took away from the surprise. We would do the callout at our Father-Son campout the month before camporee, and do a little ceremony with the OA members of the Troop.
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Re: Valid Election???

Postby kwildman » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:34 pm

japhmi wrote:I remember as a boy how everyone hated doing elections.



Try doing 25+ elections each year. some of the crap you see will blow your mind. I did one election and the unit did not have an adult elected. Another member of the unit that was a vigil tried to ramrod his friend through even though he didnt meet the criteria. Lots of drama from grown ups over a youth organization.

Several SMs gave me grief because one or more of their youths missed being elected by one vote. i could go on and on.

Fortunately, i have a great chapter so it makes it all worthwhile.
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