Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

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Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby Billiken » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:58 pm

A small group of our Troop's scouts/leaders just completed a second week of summer camp.
Part of this week was the OA ordeal for our 4 ordeal candidates (3 Scouts, 1 Leader).
These 4 are the first new OA members from our troop since the early 1980s.

I was very proud of all of them (especially the Life Scout with the same last name as me :D ).

Since nobody else did, I made point of telling them that:
1. You only wear your sash at OA functions or when representing the OA.
2. You do not fold it over your belt.

At Friday night's closing campfire I saw OA members (some brotherhood) wearing their sashes...saw few folded through the belt too.
Also, if you get the magazine Eagle Letter, there are photos of Eagle Scouts and their families...seems like there's always at least one picture with somebody wearing an OA sash (at their own Eagle COH).

Should I make a "stink" about this at the next lodge meeting (via the adult advisor)?
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:34 pm

AS a former Lodeg Adv I tried I really did and Got no where. I have attended Eagle COH where the Candidate wears his sash and his MB Sash. I told them one or the other not both and neither can be on the belt.But being and adult I held my tongue until after the ceremony then let them know in no uncertain terms it is not allowed. Went to another for the same troop I might have well talked to a wall the last time. I was not a chapter ADv I was the ADv for Wagion #6 so they only person in the councuil that could over ride any decision i made was the CE and he never would.SO if they will not listen to the LA they are not going to listen to you or a chapter adv.
This bothers me as well but those members that choose to werar a flap even though they have not paid dues to become a member bother me more. I would hear well I earned it and you cannot take it from me. Well folks that is way wrong if you have not paid your dues you are no longer a member and cannot wear anything of the OA.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby smtroop168 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:30 pm

Hey Jerry...can you wear MBs on your OA sash? :lol: Can you just wear 1/2 your sash? :lol:
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:40 pm

You can't wear a legend on the back! Or anywhere else. I do know that But folks do!
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby scoutaholic » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:18 am

I'm afraid I have to disagree with your oppinions on this one.

As a youth, I was very involved in OA. I wore the sash a lot. Often that was at OA functions, but not always. As chapter chief, many of the district scouts and scouters knew who I was, and you could probably argue that I was representing the OA all the time. In the 6+ years that I was heavily involved I NEVER heard anyone mention that there were times that the sash was not appropriate or allowed.

Years later I'm now SM. Boys from my troop have joined the OA, largely because I sometimes wear the sash and they wanted to know about it. Someone at summer camp said they couldn't wear their sashes (at this point, they were new sashes and the boys were proud of what they had earned.) I have since heard this rule in several other circumstances.

I guess you could say that any time one is wearing the sash they are 'representing the OA'. It doesn't matter if you mean to represent the OA in your current actions, those who are watching will associate your actions with OA if they see and recognize the sash.

In our districts, OA members are encourage to wear the sash to district roundtable and other district events. The sash is being used as an advertising tool. People see the sash and want to know more about OA. I think you are missing out on recruiting/sharing opportunities if nobody ever sees a sash outside of OA functions.

My questions are these:
When did they decide that the sash should not be worn outside of OA functions?
How are the boys supposed to know about OA and be interrested enough to want to join if they never see a sash? (They aren't invited to OA functions which is the only place the sash should be worn).
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:53 am

Read the rules. It is only worn at OA events and activities or when you MUST be identified as a member of the Lodge rendering special service. It also can be worn at a COH But not with the MB Sash. ALso do not wear it on your belt.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:05 am

OK While we are at it one of my OA pet peeves is a clean sash( other than a new ordeal member). If it ain't dirty you are not giving cheerful service :lol:
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:17 am

"My questions are these:
When did they decide that the sash should not be worn outside of OA functions?
How are the boys supposed to know about OA and be interrested enough to want to join if they never see a sash? (They aren't invited to OA functions which is the only place the sash should be worn)."


The rules are in the OA Handbook.
The Flap Signifies a scout or scouter as a member of a Lodge(if their dues are paid)
The Members wear their sash at camp on Visitors night for the calling out ceremony
Members of the Unit Election Team wear their sash when they come in to do a unit election. This is also an appropriate time for the members of the troop to wear their sash.
Members o the Dance team wear their sash when going to a Function. Mall show,B&G Dinner etc.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby scoutaholic » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:18 pm

wagionvigil wrote:
scoutaholic wrote:...When did they decide that the sash should not be worn outside of OA functions?...
...The rules are in the OA Handbook.


I would have expected the rules to be in the handbook. However, I'm pretty sure the same rules were not in my handbook in the '80s.

I didn't say I don't believe the rule exists. I simply don't agree with the rule and don't understand the reasoning behind it.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:30 pm

It is in the Handbook under Uniform and Insignia.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby lifescoutforlife » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:10 am

wagionvigil wrote:OK While we are at it one of my OA pet peeves is a clean sash( other than a new ordeal member). If it ain't dirty you are not giving cheerful service :lol:

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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby Chief J » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:46 am

lifescoutforlife wrote:
wagionvigil wrote:OK While we are at it one of my OA pet peeves is a clean sash( other than a new ordeal member). If it ain't dirty you are not giving cheerful service :lol:

AMEN!!!!!


DITTO :lol: :lol:

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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby joat » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:49 am

A Scout is clean. Wash it when it's dirty, better yet take it off before digging ditches. A dirty sash to "prove" you did work makes as much sense as not taking a bath.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby WVBeaver05 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:42 pm

scoutaholic wrote:
wagionvigil wrote:
scoutaholic wrote:...When did they decide that the sash should not be worn outside of OA functions?...
...The rules are in the OA Handbook.


I would have expected the rules to be in the handbook. However, I'm pretty sure the same rules were not in my handbook in the '80's.

Not sure if it was in my OA Handbook in the (ahhhm....mumble, mumble.......) Ok, 60's.

But I am sure that we were told "only at OA functions....", etc. as described above.

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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:24 am

This has been a rule ever since I was tapped in 63'
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby Ursus Snorous Roarus » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:03 pm

I appreciate your wanting to 'fix' this problem, but tread carefully... no one likes a uniform nazi, especially a kid. Be construcive in your correction otherwise your correction can give the kid a forever bad taste about the OA with a simple embarassing incident. Be glad they want to wear the sash, but encourage involvement and participation.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby WVBeaver05 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:29 pm

Ursus Snorous Roarus wrote:I appreciate your wanting to 'fix' this problem, but tread carefully... no one likes a uniform nazi, especially a kid. Be construcive in your correction otherwise your correction can give the kid a forever bad taste about the OA with a simple embarassing incident. Be glad they want to wear the sash, but encourage involvement and participation.

I understand some folks not liking to be told they are wrong and I know it is a sensitive area. I would never embarass a youth or adult over it. However, the uniform policies are rules and I find it difficult to rationalize that we teach them to follow rules and then can't point out when they aren't. That is a message that we are sending by inaction. I don't see any way I can explain that it is OK to not follow this rule, but not some other rule.

Tough area, but I feel obligated to mention it. Yes, discretely and positively.

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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:34 pm

All o the new Ordeal are talked to while the Brotherhood Ceremony is going on. During this time all the committees speak and talk about how theyt function within the Lodge and teh Lodge Chief goes through the wearing of the Flap and Sash.
We have 4 service weekends a year and we do all three ceremonies (if necesary) at each weekend.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby pipestone1991 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:06 am

I think there is an OA-themed Eagle COH template. However, you can't wear both sash and mb sash, you have to pick one.
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Re: Pet Peeve: OA Sashes Worn at (Obviously) Non-OA Events

Postby fgoodwin » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:44 am

WVBeaver05 wrote:I understand some folks not liking to be told they are wrong and I know it is a sensitive area. I would never embarass a youth or adult over it. However, the uniform policies are rules and I find it difficult to rationalize that we teach them to follow rules and then can't point out when they aren't. That is a message that we are sending by inaction. I don't see any way I can explain that it is OK to not follow this rule, but not some other rule.

Tough area, but I feel obligated to mention it. Yes, discretely and positively.
YiS

I agree it is important to speak up.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard Scouts and Scouters say, "Well I wore such-and-such on my uniform, and so-and-so never said a word about it", as if silence meant it was OK. I'm sure the silent party was being courteous and feared being called a uniform nazi. But if we don't speak up, they will never learn to wear the uniform properly.

Of course, then you have the problem of Scouts & Scouters who KNOW the rules for proper wear, but choose to ignore them and wear the uniform incorrectly anyway.
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