Troops That Do not Support the Order

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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby Ursus Snorous Roarus » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:00 pm

I'm confused. A Lodge can tap/call out a Candidate from any lodge. But the Candidate must attend his home lodge's Ordeal and cannot join any but his own council's lodge. Are we saying the same thing?
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:06 pm

You are correct in what you are saying but I am not sure that is what he was saying :)
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:57 pm

What I was trying to say was:

1) You can attend any tap out as a guest.

2) You can only be tapped out by your lodge which is the one that is in your council. The exception would require a letter for the home lodge attesting that the candidate has been elected in his home lodge.

3) You are a member of your council's lodge

4) You must do your ordeal with your lodge except for exceptional circumstances such as a religious conflict or a move.

The lodge guide says it a lot better than I did.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby Ursus Snorous Roarus » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:09 pm

FrankJ wrote:What I was trying to say was:
2) You can only be tapped out by your lodge which is the one that is in your council. The exception would require a letter for the home lodge attesting that the candidate has been elected in his home lodge.


We always have out of council units attending our camp and we call them out no different than our own. The only thing we do is give them a letter explaining they were tapped out by us to take back to their home lodge.
Last edited by Ursus Snorous Roarus on Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:46 am

"The lodge guide says it a lot better than I did."

Not National Policy But appears to be a local thing which really cannot go against National
We Tap/call out of council troops all the time (yes Wagion #6 still taps) and we have new ordeals tapped at other camps all the time.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:43 am

The lodge guide is on the OA national web site & is not a local document. I assume it is national policy. I do not really care that much. As long as the lodge doing the tapping has reasonable assurance that the Candidates are actually candidates then tapping them is a good thing in my mind. If not, they will be embarrassed when they gat back to their home & find out they are not.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby Ursus Snorous Roarus » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:03 am

We don't verify candidacy before the tapping, and not really interested in trying. After tapouts our membership secty compares names to election results in Lodgemaster, if there's a problem he tells the candidate to go see his SM (love Wagion's solution!).
Last edited by Ursus Snorous Roarus on Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby OldGreyBear » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am

The Troop I serve supports the OA, I am not in that group. What has sealed my opinion about the OA is how the members react during Camporees or Klondikes. The OA usually runs a station, staffed by youth of course. When you visit the OA station, it is literally over run with youth standing around, talking, carrying on and pretty much making fun of the scouts in the competition, competition that they are not in, because they are staffing the station. I thought the first responsibility that an arrowman had was to his troop/patrol and that responsibility would be fulfilled best if the arrowman would give his patrol the benefit of his experience during the competition phase of the event. I see no reason for the OA to staff a competition station unless the disitrct is sorely lacking in Staff, and then only the minimum of people used. Having scouts wanting to aspire to be OA members so they can staff the station and not worry about the activtities is not my idea of honor. And the Adults enable this attitude by allowing the youth to stand around while the adults do the work

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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:20 am

OGB You need to visit a wagion weekend. WE ussualy have lodge members from at least 2 other lodges attend because of what we do at the weekends.
Our Lodge does not send anyone to Camporees unless it is a council wide camporee. If anyone goes it is the dance team to perform.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby maricopasem » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:33 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Should the troop leadership of these troops still be in scouting regardless as to what kind of troop program they have? They are not supporting the BSA Programs.

wagionvigil wrote:Remember the OA is boy led and adults have very little input. If the boys do not do it it may not get done. In the OA it is NOT the adults responsibilty to make sure it heppens. It is on the Boys!

I'm not sure I understand who you feel should be held accountable for lack of OA participation. In one post you suggest expelling from BSA the adult leaders of non-participating troops while in another post you say it's entirely the boys' responsibility.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:19 pm

Simple in the Troop the Troop leaders. They are the ones that get the election information not the boys
Once in the Lodge it is the boys that make it happen with input as requested from their adult adv.
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby Billiken » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:43 pm

As I've posted, our troop was "absent" from the OA for around 30 years.
We now have 4 new ordeal members (3 scouts, 1 adult).

I was excited that several other Scouts (not yet in OA) have spoken with me to make sure they qualified for the troop OA elections in 2009.

One, who did not qualify (had only 14 day/nights camping) is now making a purposeful effort to attend more weekend campouts.
"The only problem with Boy Scouts is, there aren't enough of them." Will Rogers
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby Ursus Snorous Roarus » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:56 pm

Billiken wrote:As I've posted, our troop was "absent" from the OA for around 30 years.
We now have 4 new ordeal members (3 scouts, 1 adult).
I was excited that several other Scouts (not yet in OA) have spoken with me to make sure they qualified for the troop OA elections in 2009.
One, who did not qualify (had only 14 day/nights camping) is now making a purposeful effort to attend more weekend campouts.

And that is how it starts. Recognize them at your COH, keep promoting involvement and attendance at ordeals, fellowships, banquet, etc... get them onto committees to get involved and meet some new Scouts. They may get to see Scouts they go to school with but are in other troops. Or get to make some new friends... Show them that Scouting is much larger than just what happens in the Troop. If you have a web site or bulletin board at your meeting room, post the requirements. Give periodic handouts of individual activity records to show where they are for the upcoming year's eligibility. Have to pay attention too - if a Scout has slipped a little on his camping requirement in the past year, by the date of the next election he may fall below the 15 nights!
Enjoy the adventure and show them how much fun it is!
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Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby Billiken » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:02 pm

U S R:

I must say....the Call-Out Ceremony at 7Ranges is one of the more impressive ones I've seen.
(We've been attending summer camp there every year since 1987 ==> Calumet/outpost...first week.)
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