Troops That Do not Support the Order

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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:25 am

We do not hold Ordeals during camp. ALso if a Troop attends another camp they can be tapped there and Wagion notified or just Sign up for an Ordeal Weekend and be tapped at the Pre Ordeal ceremony.
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Postby WeeWillie » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:33 pm

I do not understand how a troop does not know about OA. Every summer camp I've been to includes an OA Call Out at a camp wide camp fire. Ditto for camporees. OA assists at Camporees and Cub Camp. It is in the Scout Handbook p425-426 and the SM Hand Book. It is included in SM/ASM Specific Training. There are the OA pocket flaps that Arrowmen wear.
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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:50 pm

Simple Mike They do not know about it because the leaders do everything in their power to make sure the boys do not know about it. Go ahead a flame some of you but as a Former Council Lodge Adv I have seen it and know all about it!!!!! I had to deal with it!!!
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Postby pipestone1991 » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:24 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Simple Mike They do not know about it because the leaders do everything in their power to make sure the boys do not know about it. Go ahead a flame some of you but as a Former Council Lodge Adv I have seen it and know all about it!!!!! I had to deal with it!!!


Wagion.....*sighs*...

Dude, you're missing the point. While there are some who block out OA most do not as you suggest(in Ohio we call that stereotyping). It's simple, the BSA handbook does not provide much info on the OA. All most scouts ever see of the OA is the tapout of summer camp. As has been stated many, many times; communication is the key problem here.
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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:30 pm

Pipestone read all my last post I have dealt with the leaders that talk it down,DIscourage etc. We are small council and if we have it here it is bigger in large councils like Salt Lake or NYC. you can communicate all you want but when it falls on deaf ears???? Eevery SM in our council gets a letter from the Lodge the First of each year asking the Troop to schedule an election and if needed have a speaker come and talk to the Unit about the Lodge and what goes on. ALso our Council News Letter has an OA Section explaining things and what is going on in the Lodge.
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Postby Hubert » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:37 pm

The boys in my troop were never really interested in it to be honest. I myself was not for a while but after talking with a few members, I am now. I was elected in and Conclave is in a few months.

However, my troop did not wish to go to the OA Callout, since the youth was not interested, the adults did not force us to go. Instead, we worked on advancement back at camp.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:26 am

wagionvigil wrote:e leaders that talk it down,DIscourage etc.


And yet why do they talk down/discourage it? It's simply because they DO NOT REALLY KNOW WHAT THE PROGRAM IS ABOUT! \

Edit: Got rid of the stuff I regret.
Last edited by pipestone1991 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:32 am

pipestone you are on shaky ground. I will not tolerate your tone. I understand that many scouts do not think the OA is cool or want to do service to their council but those same scouts should not influence the new scouts not to take part. You learn by doing in most cases and you learned not to want the OA from the scouts before you etc etc.
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Postby mt_goodrich » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:14 am

You know, I kinda can make a comparison between OA and Wood Badge.

As wagion has stated from his experience, there are Scouters who, for a lack of a better term, loath OA for some reason. Ones I have met that do not like it think it is a social club and only "cool" people get in. They don't want their Scouts involved as they feel it will take away from their troop.

As I have posted in another thread of a few months ago, there are people who loathe Wood Badgers and think of it as a social club.

If folks really knew what OA and Wood Badge were all about.....service, they might have a different outlook. Then again, some folks just don't get it.

There are going to be people that are going to be negative. In just about every organization they exist....and unfortunately, it exists in Scouting.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:20 am

I shouldn't have yelled, for that I apologized. However, while there may be plenty who cannot stand the OA, it is because obvisously they saw something that shouldn't have happened. This is why communication between these adults and the scouts is the key here.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:41 am

Finally Pipestone, IS the OA a polularity contest? In Some ways it is but in many ways it is not. Usually the popular scouts are also the Troop leaders. The way elections are done today there is NO reason that everyone on the ballot should not be elected. Now that being said scouts are pretty smart and some adults do not give them credit. I was jumped by a SM when one of his chosen was not elected he wanted another ballot as apparantly the boys failed to vote the way that was planned. This scout met all the reqirements was active but the Boys hated him. He was a no it all. Told the SM tough he can try next year. I spoke to another youth in the troop and he said the boys decided that no way would this scout be a good OA member at this time. The youth adjusted and was later elected in and attened every weekend after that.
How would you suggest we educate others on the Order? Are you a brother?
On the same hand I have seen very popular boys take their Ordeal and never come back. WHat? me do work?
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Postby pipestone1991 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:11 am

wagionvigil wrote:Finally Pipestone, IS the OA a polularity contest?
Yes, but that is just how the system is. It's unfortunate, but somehow we need to explain this to leaders.
In Some ways it is but in many ways it is not. true
How would you suggest we educate others on the Order?vigerous campaigning Are you a brother?of course
On the same hand I have seen very popular boys take their Ordeal and never come back.In most cases, yes.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:18 am

When the real popular I am scouts for me guys find out there is work involved forget it! We have boys that are not real popular in their troop but are fantastic OA Members. They get the idea of giving back and cheerful service. When I was a scout in the OA I saw a bunch of adults siting on their behinds and telling then boys what to do. Now everyine works at something, We do not have thiose sittuing on their behinds and if there are it is scouts hiding and trying to get out of cheerful service. We have a rule everyone attends ceremonies. Once ceremonies there is a group of Lodge officers and Adv. that tour the camp and make sure eveyone is at ceremonies this is both youth and adult. When confronted they are given two options attend ceremonies or go home.NOW! everyone is aware of this. We had a SM that said well I have to attend the fire we built. The Lodge Chief went and got water and put it out. One furious SM but he went to ceremonies. Funny I have not seen him at weekends since but his boys still come.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:30 am

wagionvigil wrote:When the real popular I am scouts for me guys find out there is work involved forget it! We have boys that are not real popular in their troop but are fantastic OA Members. They get the idea of giving back and cheerful service.


I know. This is what upsets me. I was fortunate to be popular enough to be elected on my first ballot. However, I've known some diehards who took many elections (one who took 4!) to be elected in the OA. They work very hard and it's sad to think about how many hours of cheerful service were eliminated because of this.
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Postby 9009scoutmaster » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:52 pm

Scout Handbook Page 426

The Order of the Arrow (OA) is Scouting's national honor society. It sets out to recognize those youth and adult campers who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives, to develop and maintain camping traditions and sprit, to Promote Scout camping, and to crystallize the scout habit of helpfulness into the life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others.

I hate to say but some scouters might see the OA as their summer camp set up and take down teams. In the last 5 years that I have been back involved in scouting. This is all that I have seen out of my local OA lodge. At lodge activities when I have brought up what are we doing to promote camping as a Lodge. I get no responce. We have 4 districts in our Council. I have never seen any Lodge activities at 2 of these district camporee's. The other 2 I have not been to so I can not say.

I feel like the OA needs to get back to roots of promoting the camping program inside the scouting program.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:58 pm

Each lodge is responsible for a where to go camping booklet and distributing it to each troop in their council. This should be updated on a regular basis and reprinted and distributed.
OUr Lodge is in the process of redoing ours this year.
We also hold a Spring Nature walk each May at our camp . This is for Cub Scouts and we have People from the DCNR,Game COmmission,Fish Commission, Dance Team putting on demonstrations around camp. It is very well attended. Our Dance Team is avaiable for Blue and Gold Dinners and Courts of Honor. They also perform at Senior Centers and Scouting Mall Shows. We are very visible throughout our council.
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Postby Mrw » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:35 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Each lodge is responsible for a where to go camping booklet and distributing it to each troop in their council. This should be updated on a regular basis and reprinted and distributed.


Never seen anything like this!
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:36 pm

Ask your service center
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Quality Lodge Requirements

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:51 pm

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Postby 9009scoutmaster » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:26 pm

Lodge put out a Where to go Camping Guide on CD 3 years ago. It has not been updated since them. CD's were given out at Roundtables by District DE.

Lodge OA activities each year Spring Ordeal in May, Set up Summer Camp.
Summer Ordeal - August, Breakdown Summer Camp
Fall Fellowship November Vigil Call out, Lodge Election & Lodge awards given out.
Spring POW-WOW, March Lodge fun weekend get ready for Conclave in April
Beaver day on Saturday in May and another in September to do projects at Scout Camp. All scout units are invited. For two years we built a troop camping trip around this event and had our cub pack attend during the day. We had more youth all non OA that youth OA member that were present.
Lodge will only except tapout's from inside council. Summer Camp,
If your troop go out of Council for summer camp, well you can bring them out to camp just to be tapout for the OA.
For the last 4 years we have been unable to get any OA involvement at District Camporee. Example Dance Team, Tapout for units going out of Council for Summer Camp.
For non OA members inside our Council their is no OA visibality except for tapout at summer camp.
THE FUNNY PART LODGE HAS BEEN A NATIONAL HONOR LODGE THE LAST 6 YEARS.
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