Troops That Do not Support the Order

This is for OA members and to ask questions about the OA. Under no Circumstance is restricted information to be posted on this forum. If it is the forum will be deleted and the offender banned from the Group.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:27 am

There are many many troops that do not support the OA. They either do not hold elections or hold the elections let the youth take their Ordeal then Schedule activities each OA weekend which are more inticing then going to a service weekend. What they are doing is intentionally discouraging the youth from taking part.
I guesswhat I am getting at is
Should the troop leadership of these troops still be in scouting regardless as to what kind of troop program they have? They are not supporting the BSA Programs.
I had a leader tell me the Boys decided not take part and hold elections. I do not believe this. The leaders had to put input some time. I also had a leade tell me that the troop has never held and election. Well the Boys do not know any better.
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby Mrw » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:50 am

Our troop has gaone several years at a time without elections in the past.

The boys really did not know what OA was and the troop adults had never had personal involvement and so did not see a reason to encourage participation.

Since the OA never once even attempted to contact the troop to ask about interest in elections, we never had them.

There was no intentioanl discouragement of participation, but the consequence that neither of my boys had a chance to participate is the same. I would guess our troop is not at all unique in this manner.

We have had elections the past few years and have had a couple kids who went for their Ordeal, but I have no idea if they have participated beyond that. The troop schedule is set about a year in advance, and when OA weekends may or may not be plays no part in what weekends things are scheuled.
Mother of two Eagles and troop Advancement Chair
Mrw
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:49 pm
Location: Greater Cleveland

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:16 am

I really this is found more in Large Councils. I would also interject that the troop leadership needs to contact the OA of the OA does not contact them. Remember the OA is boy led and adults have very little input. If the boys do not do it it may not get done. In the OA it is NOT the adults responsibilty to make sure it heppens. It is on the Boys!
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby Chief J » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:50 am

Both the Lodge and the units need to mend fences in our council. There were times when communication suffered and relations were damaged that have had a lasting effect.

Recent Lodge Leadership is working hard to rebuild these relations, but it is slow.

Chief J
Last edited by Chief J on Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chief J
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:01 am
Location: Greater Pittsburgh Council

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:56 am

I have been working on that Chiefj. Your past Chief was great and really was trying to get things going. He was at most of Wagions activities over the past year. I went to the District close to where I live last year and discussed the OA with them. Yes I will do things in other councils when asked. There was a problem over a Chief election from several years ago and the district I went to had been excluded from most Lodge things because of it. (They tried to put officers in that would do what you are talking about). Hopefully your Lodge will come around soon as in July when they really are a part of Area 4 they may have problems.
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby deweylure » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:33 pm

our troop had not taken part in OA for several years mainly due to the SM.
A new leader came in and I sceduled the election. the only problem now is the location for the ordeal weekend is too far away and no one wants the 5-6 hr drive.

Dewey
deweylure
Eagle
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council

Postby mt_goodrich » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:57 pm

Our troop hasn't done it in the past several years due to SM not really knowing much about it.

However, this year we have scheduled elections and look forward to the election team coming.
Mike
* Crew Advisor, Crew 2598 Longhorn Council
* Eagle Scout - 1982
mt_goodrich
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: Longhorn Council

Postby Billiken » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:32 pm

Our troop, chartered in 1941, has not taken part in the OA for as long as anyone can remember (probably since the early 1980s).

That changed this year when yours truly became Scoutmaster.
"The only problem with Boy Scouts is, there aren't enough of them." Will Rogers
Billiken
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:27 pm
Location: Greater Cleveland Council

Postby mt_goodrich » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:36 pm

Way to go Billiken!

I am not SM, but STRONGLY encourage troop leadership that they were doing a disservice to the boys and to Scouting in general by not participating.
Mike
* Crew Advisor, Crew 2598 Longhorn Council
* Eagle Scout - 1982
mt_goodrich
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: Longhorn Council

Postby scoutaholic » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:57 pm

My troop hasn't actively done anything to support the order in quite a while.

We elected 3 boys several years ago. All three went to their Ordeal. All three went to some chapter meetings. A year or more later, all three became brotherhood members. Two of them went to the summer fellowship (I think two summers).

Our chapter has gone through several years with no advisor/incompetent advisor/short-term advisor/etc. The boys have had little to no example of what the chapter is supposed to do. Consequently, they do nothing. Few boys stick around long enough to figure out what they are missing. Every time there is a new advisor or someone figures out they need leadership they elect new chapter officers to replace the now inactive ones that were elected a few months before.

The younger brother of one of those three elected years ago, is now my JASM. There was an election team at a district camp 2 years ago, and the JASM was the only boy elegible (most were young and didn't have the camping time or the rank.) He was elected, but never went to an Ordeal.

My son and one other boy are now elegible from my troop. I went into the chapter meeting last month to arrange for an election team to come to my troop. I found 3 boys there with no adults. They were just sitting around, talking and joking. I couldn't tell that there was any plan for doing anything else. Two of the 3 are brothers and, I believe, the current chapter officers. They told me that their own troop meeting is the same night as mine, but they would try to arrange a 5-minute visit to hold an election. They didn't know when ordeals are scheduled, and acted like they didn't really know how to run an election either.

Assuming that my son does get elected and goes to the ordeal, I'm not sure there is a positive experience awaiting him in our chapter/lodge or the order.
Eagle Scout 1987
OA Vigil Honor 1986
Fox - WE7-590-05-2
Currently - Troop/Team/Crew Advancement Chair & Dist Webmaster
Previously - SM, MC, CM, ACM, ADL, ASM, COR, Dist Camp Chair, PL, SPL, Scribe, Songleader, JASM, OA Chapter Officer, ...
scoutaholic
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:56 am
Location: Great Salt Lake Council - Utah

Re: Troops That Do not Support the Order

Postby scoutaholic » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:08 pm

wagionvigil wrote:...Should the troop leadership of these troops still be in scouting regardless as to what kind of troop program they have?...


There may be several reasons, not all of them malicious, that a troop does not appear to be supporting the OA.

Many years my troop has not held an election, because we didn't have anyone elegible. (Because of the way most LDS troops are set-up, many of the boys who have 15 camping nights and are 1st Class move into the Varsity Team and are no-longer registered as part of the troop.)

Occasionally, we have someone elegible, but not really interrested in joining. (See my previous post about how poorly our local OA chapter has been run).

I don't feel it important to contact the chapter/lodge officers every year that we don't need/want an election. If they contact me about it, I'll happly tell them we don't need an election, and they can do the paperwork to count ours as done.

I've never planned anything on an OA weekend with the intent of making the OA boys choose. However, if my annual calendar is already planned when the OA gets a wild idea and plans something, I'm unlikely to cancel my plans.

IF there are leaders maliciously campaigning against the OA as described, they need some sort of attitude adjustment, but I'm not sure that kicking them out of scouting would solve anything.
Eagle Scout 1987
OA Vigil Honor 1986
Fox - WE7-590-05-2
Currently - Troop/Team/Crew Advancement Chair & Dist Webmaster
Previously - SM, MC, CM, ACM, ADL, ASM, COR, Dist Camp Chair, PL, SPL, Scribe, Songleader, JASM, OA Chapter Officer, ...
scoutaholic
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:56 am
Location: Great Salt Lake Council - Utah

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:09 pm

The Chapter is a part of the Lodge in large Councils. They are not the Lodge. The Lodge as a whole should be having activities separate from the Chapters. I guess we are very luck we do not have chapters. Ae are Wagion#6 We have never Merged. WE have 950 members on the Rolls and it is not unusual for 1/3 of them showing up for a service weekend. We still have a Charter Member active. Billiken anytime you want to come to a wagion weekend let me know. It is not that far from Cleveland. Our camp is right off the turnpike near Donegal,Pa. Next weekend is APril 18,19,20 I believe.
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby pipestone1991 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:25 pm

I think we can conclude that lack of education (about the OA) is the problem here between units and the Lodge.
Eagle ScoutGold Palm2007
Philmont 801-E2 2006
pipestone1991
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:45 am
Location: Buckeye Council

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:36 pm

In most cases you're correct. In many cases it is because one of the adult leaders has a bad taste in theor mouth from something they had happen or heard about the OA
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby Hubert » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:29 pm

My troop was not interested in the OA when we first started. The youth, including myself, did not want to be in the OA. We wanted to get a jump on getting the troop running first. When we went to summer camp a few years back, I was elected in. However, the first conclave came about, I had a broken ankle, and was told I couldnt go. (later found out I could have.) the secone one came about, and I had a different commitment I had to attend to.

But since then, we have tried to get our chapter out to my troop. We call Person A, Person A says we need to call Person B, they say we have to call Person C, so on and so forth, ending up in a circle. So we gave up. Recently, we went to a different Chapter, and they got right on it and came out to our troop. I was elected in again, (this was before I turned 18 ) and plan on attending the Ordeal comming up in a few months.

It is things like that, that I htink turn people away from the OA, if it were not for us contacting the other chapter, we would have no part in the OA.
Justin
Asst. Scoutmaster
Eagle Scout Class of 2008
13 Years in scouting.
Hubert
Eagle
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Tall Pine Council

Postby scoutaholic » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:56 pm

wagionvigil wrote:The Chapter is a part of the Lodge in large Councils. They are not the Lodge. The Lodge as a whole should be having activities separate from the Chapters. ...


The operative word here is SHOULD. The Lodge SHOULD have activities.

The lodge sponsors the annual summer fellowship, and the annual lodge banquet where the vigil nominees are announced. They also organize a booth at the annual scout expo, and some ordeals. Not much else happening on the lodge level.
They have tried several times to get a lodge dance team and lodge ceremony teams, but they don't seem to get much interest because most the boys are involved in their chapter level dance and/or ceremony teams.
Eagle Scout 1987
OA Vigil Honor 1986
Fox - WE7-590-05-2
Currently - Troop/Team/Crew Advancement Chair & Dist Webmaster
Previously - SM, MC, CM, ACM, ADL, ASM, COR, Dist Camp Chair, PL, SPL, Scribe, Songleader, JASM, OA Chapter Officer, ...
scoutaholic
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:56 am
Location: Great Salt Lake Council - Utah

Postby Mrw » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:14 pm

pipestone1991 wrote:I think we can conclude that lack of education (about the OA) is the problem here between units and the Lodge.


This was definitely the case in our troop. And if the troop doesn't know what OA is, and there is never any type of out-reach from the OA to troops that are not participating at all, then it will never change.
Mother of two Eagles and troop Advancement Chair
Mrw
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:49 pm
Location: Greater Cleveland

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:36 am

I love it when they say announce the Vigil Honors. WE still pull and tap our Vigils and they keep a Vigil. If they do not show up at a weekend to be pulled then the Honor is returned to National, NO ONE IS TOLD THEY ARE GETTING VIGIL. Vigil is not given as a reward for Money etc. It is an honor given by the Lodge Youth for your service to the LODGE and the Youth of the Council! It is Not given for Being a member for X Number of years .
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Postby Chief J » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:09 am

pipestone1991 wrote:I think we can conclude that lack of education (about the OA) is the problem here between units and the Lodge.
\

Sums it up very nicely - Communication is key.

WWW
Chief J
Chief J
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:01 am
Location: Greater Pittsburgh Council

Postby Billiken » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:20 am

wagionvigil wrote:Billiken, anytime you want to come to a wagion weekend let me know. It is not that far from Cleveland. Our camp is right off the turnpike near Donegal, PA.


wagionvigil:

Thank you for the invitation!
I may take you up on that in the future.

Our troop has 3 scouts who are eligible this year.
Our troop attends a non-council camp as our primary week of summer camp.
However, in 2008 these scouts (and 3 others) will be attending a second week of summer camp at our council camp. If elected, they will be tapped out that week and can have/do their ordeal that night and following day (merit badge classes/instructors make accomodations for missing a day of class).

I'm hoping to get the OA "back up and running"...first in our troop then our district (which currently has no district chief).
"The only problem with Boy Scouts is, there aren't enough of them." Will Rogers
Billiken
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:27 pm
Location: Greater Cleveland Council

Next

Return to Order of The Arrow

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest