Order of the arrow elections

This is for OA members and to ask questions about the OA. Under no Circumstance is restricted information to be posted on this forum. If it is the forum will be deleted and the offender banned from the Group.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby ThunderingWind » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:28 am

kwildman wrote:Dewey - sounds like you need a 2x4 to get some changes there. OA builds on the best part of scouting and has helped to keep our older scouts engaged in scouting.

I have said afore mentioned 2x4. I am unemployed and willing to travel to help them see the errors of their way.

What those leaders have done to the youth is tantmont to deprivation of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
No Longer a Registered Scouter
ThunderingWind
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:16 pm
Location: longer affiliated with the BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby deweylure » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:01 pm

Leadership changes were made when the old leadership started a new troop behind everyone's back with councils blessing. I was not invited because another leader and I supposedly were the the problem. They demanded I be fired as ASM. COR and chartering organization did not see it there way. They left. 5 dedicated scouters are picking up the pieces.

Thanks for the offer of a 2x4 and good luck on the job front I am in the same boat. What is your occupation maybe I can give you some leads or fellow scouters may be able to help

Dewey
deweylure
Eagle
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: DesPlaines Valley Council

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby Cowboy » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:34 pm

I am still baffled as to how not one of 15 boys got elected. In our Troop the OA fellows come in, give the presentation, write those who are eligable on the board and everyone who is NOT already in OA gets to vote. As long as you get at least 1 vote you are in. Did none of the 15 vote? Not understanding-or maybe our elections are held wrong?
Cowboy
Eagle
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:56 am
Location: none

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:08 pm

Ah everyone votes even OA Members All youth members of the Troop that is . Those that are under 21
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby FrankJ » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:28 pm

Youth members of the troop would be under 18? 18 + Ventures, who I guess are considered youth in terms of OA are no longer youth members of the troop & crews do not get to vote.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby Quailman » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:48 pm

OA Basics (linked above) wrote:Eligibility
The Order of the Arrow membership requirements are:

  • Be a registered member of the Boy Scouts of America.
  • After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.
  • Youth must be under the age of 21, hold the BSA First Class rank or higher, and following approval by the Scoutmaster or Varsity team Coach, be elected by the youth members of their troop or team.
  • Adults (age 21 or older) who are registered in the BSA and meet the camping requirements may be selected following nomination to the lodge adult selection committee. Adult selection is based on their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and is not for recognition of service, including current or prior positions. Selected adults must be an asset to the Order because of demonstrated abilities, and must provide a positive example for the growth and development of the youth members of the lodge.


In my troop we've always interpreted "be elected by the youth members" to mean a majority of those present on the date of the election. I'm surprised Cowboy's troops counts a nomination (1 vote) as being elected. I think I've only ever seen one boy not make it.
Quailman
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:52 am
Location: Sam Houston Area Council, Spring, TX

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:44 pm

Quailman wrote:
OA Basics (linked above) wrote:Eligibility
The Order of the Arrow membership requirements are:

  • Be a registered member of the Boy Scouts of America.
  • After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.
  • Youth must be under the age of 21, hold the BSA First Class rank or higher, and following approval by the Scoutmaster or Varsity team Coach, be elected by the youth members of their troop or team.
  • Adults (age 21 or older) who are registered in the BSA and meet the camping requirements may be selected following nomination to the lodge adult selection committee. Adult selection is based on their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and is not for recognition of service, including current or prior positions. Selected adults must be an asset to the Order because of demonstrated abilities, and must provide a positive example for the growth and development of the youth members of the lodge.


In my troop we've always interpreted "be elected by the youth members" to mean a majority of those present on the date of the election. I'm surprised Cowboy's troops counts a nomination (1 vote) as being elected. I think I've only ever seen one boy not make it.

Majority of those present is correct and you can vote for how many as you want I believe now
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby PaulSWolf » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:16 pm

FrankJ wrote:Youth members of the troop would be under 18? 18 + Ventures, who I guess are considered youth in terms of OA are no longer youth members of the troop & crews do not get to vote.
ASMs under 21 are also considered "Youth" for the purposes of OA voting (even though they are "adults" for Troop purposes) and they can vote. Youth in OA are (like in Venturing) those under 21.

Venturers in Crews do not vote, of course, as elections may be done only in Troops and Teams.
Paul S. Wolf, P.E.(Ret.) mailto:pwolf@usscouts.org
Secretary, US Scouting Service Project, Inc.
PaulSWolf
Counselor
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Lake Erie Council , Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:22 pm

I was going to say that Paul but sometimes these guys do not believe me Coming from you helps. I have had more agruments with Leaders about this
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby FrankJ » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:56 pm

I stand corrected.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby FrankJ » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:48 pm

So if I read the election procedure correctly, ASMs 21 are considered youth in terms for of OA. So they must be elected to the OA as well (as opposed to being appointed as an adult), assuming they meet the youth membership requirements?
Implied in that, you cannot have women under 21 in the OA since they do not meet the youth requirements.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:00 pm

They cannot be elected after they are 18 BUT they can still vote. Once a scout is 18 he cannot be put in until age 21. I know it is wierd but it has worked for ever. But my question would be if a scout turns 18 and has not been voted in to the OA what is the Problem?
Each Troop canrecommed one adult 21+ per each 50 registered youth members in the troop but they cannot recommend an adult if they do not elect a youth
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby FrankJ » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:24 pm

It was really a philosophical question. The age outs we have had that have become ASMs were members of the OA. They also tend to go off to college shortly there after. But it is nice to know the correct answer.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby PaulSWolf » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:34 pm

Frank is correct, females under age 21 are ineligible to be members, since they can't meet the membership requirements.

Wagionvigil is wrong however. ASM's (or Asst Team Coaches) under 21 can be elected as youth members, if otherwise eligible.

Here are the specific rules from the Guide for Officers and Advisers 2008 (24-413):

Registered active member. In Boy Scout troops and Varsity Scout teams, every registered active member of the unit under age 21 at the time of the election is eligible to vote.


Youth membership qualifications. All members of, or candidates for membership in, the Order of the Arrow who are under 21 years of age shall be considered youth members or candidates for youth membership, subject to meeting the following requirements:

* Be a registered member of the Boy Scouts of America
* Hold the First Class rank of the Boy Scouts of America as a minimum
* After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but not more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five consecutive nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices of the the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps.

Candidates for youth membership shall be elected by other youth members in accordance with policies set forth by the national Order of the Arrow committee.

Adult membership requirements. All members of, or candidates for membership in, the Order of the Arrow who are 21 years of age or older and who are registered members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be considered adult members or candidates for adult membership. ...
Paul S. Wolf, P.E.(Ret.) mailto:pwolf@usscouts.org
Secretary, US Scouting Service Project, Inc.
PaulSWolf
Counselor
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:17 pm
Location: Lake Erie Council , Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:39 pm

I stand Corrected
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby kwildman » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:40 am

Sounds like the lodge in the area is partly to blame. Our lodge provides training on holding youth elections. The training is then repeated at the chapter level with the election teams prior to conducting unit elections.

OA members that belong to the troop should NOT be part of the election team. I don't think this is an actual requirement but I think it makes good sense.

If you do not feel that your election was held correctly I would contact the lodge and request that another election be held that follows the correct procedures.
No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. - Lord Baden-Powell
kwildman
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Simon Kenton Council

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:59 am

Part of the problem are the Unit Leaders that do not want to really understand the rules
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:10 am

wagionvigil wrote:Part of the problem are the Unit Leaders that do not want to really want to understand the rules


When did this start? :shock:
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:23 am

1980 :?:
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:01 pm

wagionvigil wrote:1980 :?:


So leaders that do not want to really follow the rules has only been a problem since 1980? Isn't that the end of the Belt Loop Era (72-79)? :wink:
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

PreviousNext

Return to Order of The Arrow

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest