Order of the arrow elections

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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:30 am

The OA is IMHO the best part of Scouting. I took My Ordeal in 1963 and Have been active since. I have served in various Adv positions and as Lodge Adviser for Three Years. It really gives the youth the opportunity to plan and lead. Sometimes things work out and some times things really fall flat on their face so to speak but the boys learn.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby conmcb25 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:38 pm

OK I am not a member of OA. I barely made it to Second Class as a Scout. Now as an adult, I have a First Class Scout almost at Star, and have been an Adult Leader in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for about 12 years or so.

My Troop supports the OA, although my sense is most elected are sash and dash ;)

Two years ago we had an election and with 15 eligable, we had none elected. We had a big Webelos Cross over that year, and the consensus amonst the Unti Leaders was that the issue was lost of Webelos Cross overs at the Election, not enough One year plus Scouts so the Cross overs didn't really now those eligable so they didn't vote for anyone.

This year they had 4 eligable, and elected all four.

You can take this however you wish, and you can try to tell me different but having 15 kids eligable and none elected is a real morale buster. And Im not just talking about so so kids, Im talking a bunch of that 15 were the ones who helped the yopunger scouts, did cheerfull service at campouts, helped purchase the food, you know guys who liked camping and helped the program.

I have brought up the fact that maybe we should do elections every year in jan or Feb before the Webelos Cross over, but the Scoutmaster never seems to hook it up that way.

I think it hurt our program, as you can see only 4 were eligable this year. And this is a Troop that does 2 nights of Camping every month except maybe Jan and Feb when its really cold in Indiana.

But then again, Im not a Member of OA, the SM is, so why would I have a say despite the fact that Im probably his most seasoned ASM. Ive gone to enough summer camps and weekend campouts to get all three of my kids eligable (not the reason why I did it btw).

My point being its all well and good to talk about how we should try to make OA better, but thats kind of tough if you are an outsider. How am I supposed to handle that? I don't even know the "secret handshake" :wink:

All I want is elections to be fair and reasonable, and asking cross overs to vote after being in the troop for 2 months, and maybe they missed the first campout is kind of ridiculous IMHO. Thats all I want to change but Im not an insider. Its not really my place to change it, or insist upon a change.

How am I supposed to handle this?
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:55 pm

First Welcome to the Forum.
I cannot understand why you have not been put in. The Troop is allowed one adult for every 50 registered Scouts in the troop which basicially means one per year that they put a youth in. Your lodge should be holding the elections not the troop and I always had elections held in my troop before the cross over. I am a believer in working on a school year and that would eliminate this cross over problem but I am in the minority as most people in scout do not remember that was the way it was.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby conmcb25 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:07 pm

wagionvigil wrote:First Welcome to the Forum.
I cannot understand why you have not been put in. The Troop is allowed one adult for every 50 registered Scouts in the troop which basicially means one per year that they put a youth in. Your lodge should be holding the elections not the troop and I always had elections held in my troop before the cross over. I am a believer in working on a school year and that would eliminate this cross over problem but I am in the minority as most people in scout do not remember that was the way it was.


I don't now either, I guess maybe the SM doesn't do adult elections, ive never seen it come up at a comittee meeting, and Ive been to a lot over the past 8 years.

The elctions are held by a three man team fom OA. But the SM requests when they come, and the lodge does it between Jan and April every year, and they advertise it a lot. So its just a simiple matter of getting ahold of them in December and have them come the first or second meeting in January. I bet they would prefer that to trying to make all the units who wait till the last minute in April every year ;)

But again me being in OA isn't the reason Im posting, if I don't get elected they don't get my service, no skin off of my nose. ;)

My concern is getting a fair based election for the good kids we have, and with the Webelos always crossing over the last week of Feb/ First week of March that gives us two months to get elections done. But every year we seem to wait till the last minute in April.

And I could see a change in my kid after those elctions last year. The feeling was this is screwed up if NO ONE gets elected. Im sure thats why or at least part of the reason we haven't had as much participation the last year.

So since it looks like I won't be an insider anytime soon, any suggestions on moving the SM off top dead center? I think right now only he and the Comittee Chair are the only adult members of OA in the Troop Leadership. And the Chair is a good guy but I am not sure even he could change this around since this is the way "its always been done".
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:13 pm

Adults are not elected they are nominated by the committee. They just need the camping requirements and some time in service
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby kwildman » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:26 pm

i can understand that one year there was enough crossovers to bias an election but this surely cant be the case every year.

i think that the new crossovers should be able to determine which scouts they feel represent the troop the best. If these kids truly helped the younger scouts i dont understand why they wouldnt vote for them. The election team needs to make it very clear that they can vote for ANY and ALL eligible nominees. I have seen where kids did not understand that they could vote for all the kids.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby FrankJ » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:32 pm

We moved our OA election to before cross overs for that very reason. They do not know the eligible scouts for the most part so they really cannot make an informed decision, but if they are there you have to include them.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby WVBeaver05 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:03 pm

Just curious here. When the OA team comes to hold the elections do they make the presentation on what the OA is and what the reasons for electing someone is? I found that presentation and discussion seemed to allow even those Scouts with little experience with the other Scouts to vote what I consider very accurately.

YiS
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby lifescoutforlife » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:58 am

WVBeaver05 wrote:Just curious here. When the OA team comes to hold the elections do they make the presentation on what the OA is and what the reasons for electing someone is? I found that presentation and discussion seemed to allow even those Scouts with little experience with the other Scouts to vote what I consider very accurately.

YiS

This puzzles me to Wayne, I have been the adult advisor for 3 years now on OA elections and I go with the boy that is doing them. After the boys talks about the OA they talk about how the election works. They tell the Troop that if they wish to vote for everyone that is a canidate just to write "all " on the ballot and not write out every name even if there is only 2 names. In the 3 years that I have helped out I have only seen about 3 votes that did not say all and just had 1 or 2 names on it.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby evmori » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:07 am

Not being a Scout as a kid, I was nominated for the OA as an adult! Earned Vigil since! Great organization!
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby Bill Pitcher » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:52 am

To WVBeaver05: That is the way elections are supposed to be introduced, but it depends on how well the Vice Chief trains his election team and how well the election team prepares themselves!!!!!
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:04 am

It also depends on the SM. Seems the SM might be the problem in this latest issue. When I was advising an election team we had the SM sign off on eligibility before the actual vote took place. WE had an issue where a SM would not approve a kid that was elected so we stared to have them signed off on before. The reason the SM gave was some one voted wrong? APparently he had it all planned out and the kids did what they thought was right not what the SM wanted.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby FrankJ » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:10 pm

The way I understand "the rules" is the scoutmaster approves the slate before the election, but once elected, you cannot unapprove them.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby WVBeaver05 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:36 am

lifescoutforlife wrote:This puzzles me to Wayne, I have been the adult advisor for 3 years now on OA elections and I go with the boy that is doing them. After the boys talks about the OA they talk about how the election works. They tell the Troop that if they wish to vote for everyone that is a canidate just to write "all " on the ballot and not write out every name even if there is only 2 names. In the 3 years that I have helped out I have only seen about 3 votes that did not say all and just had 1 or 2 names on it.

I have never heard the Scouts offered the option of voting all, but it really shouldn't matter. Myself, I would prefer that they write out each name - can't take that long.

Bill Pitcher wrote:To WVBeaver05: That is the way elections are supposed to be introduced, but it depends on how well the Vice Chief trains his election team and how well the election team prepares themselves!!!!!

That's really one of the keys! There is a standard presentation and a video that can be shown that really make it clear even for the younger Scouts that don't have much experience with the OA. But, of course, they have to be used before they are any value.

For an election team, I normally expect to see 2-3 youth and 1 adult. And as SM I want to see them properly uniformed and prepared. They should make the introduction to the OA and allow for as many questions as there are then explain the election process and again take questions until everyone understands. In cases like that I think the process nearly always works correctly.

YiS
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby SoCal76 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:10 pm

There are elections for the OA now? When did that happen?
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:44 pm

Hope you are kidding. There have always been OA Elections in the Troops any other way is wrong and the leaders should be gone from scouting
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby SoCal76 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:02 pm

I'm not kidding. I don't remember any elections for the OA. I was in Scouts in the late 60s and early 70s and I recall that everything about the OA was secret.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby wagionvigil » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:47 pm

The OA is probably the only organization that non members vote on who gets in



http://www.oa-bsa.org/misc/basics/
Last edited by wagionvigil on Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby deweylure » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:43 am

the Troop that I am in did not have elections for years . Leadership did not want OA. I came in and helped change the attitude,then the SM started making his own rules which alienated older scouts. He wanted a private club of you must camp every month and participate in all events according to his definition. To this day the scouts will not go to OA and Once extremely active scouts have hit the girls and gas years.

I can not change the minds of these scouts.

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Re: Order of the arrow elections

Postby kwildman » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:40 am

Dewey - sounds like you need a 2x4 to get some changes there. OA builds on the best part of scouting and has helped to keep our older scouts engaged in scouting.
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