How did this pass the review?

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How did this pass the review?

Postby ronin718 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:12 pm

Here's the project... http://raceforautism.wordpress.com

Here's the rule... "Fundraising is only permitted to obtain money to pay for materials you need for your project. The project may not be a fund-raiser in itself."

-- Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Planning Guide


This kid is running a fundraiser with HUGE prizes given. It's an impressive event, but as an ESLSP, how did this get through the process? What in the world is going on in Chief Seattle Council, or are they even aware?
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby VenturingL » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:22 pm

There's an email address in the ad - maybe a deluge of that very question would make somebody think.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby ronin718 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:46 pm

I'm thinking the email goes to the kid, not the council. This one really needs to be addressed up the hill, not at the lowest level.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby Quailman » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:29 pm

So... If he gets 300 people to enter, and it lasts about three hours, that's 900 hours. That's a lot of leadership skill!

I see what you mean about the prizes:

First Prize: Trip for two to Victoria on the Clipper with an overnight stay.
Second Prize: Trip for two to Friday Harbor with a whale and sealife tour.
Third Prize: $50 gift certificate to Risterante Simone in Sammamish

Best Costume: Two $25 gift certificates to Foot Zone

Best Pictures: Two $25 gift certificates to Foot Zone
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby ThunderingWind » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:10 pm

The kids is even out of uniform in the picture on the webiste - no shoulder loops.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby ronin718 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:29 am

More info... Local news report gives a little more insight on this project. Still not sure how it passed the fundraiser test, but perhaps there's enough we don't see that passed the substance test.


http://www.king5.com/new-day-northwest/ ... 10108.html
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby ThunderingWind » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:49 am

I got brave and asked the Council via e-mail how this passed the fundraiser test since so many Scouters have seen it via
the Internet and have questioned the project.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:58 am

It will be interesting if you receive a reply. The council really does not owe you one. :) I have no knowledge of the project other than what is posted here, but if I had to defend it... I would so it is more about raising public awareness & a race. The fund raising is secondary, besides it an exceptional project. Can you imagine the poor publicity that would come from the council revoking its approval?
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:27 am

I've seen this before. The Eagle project qualifying emphasis is put on the "helping people learn what it's like to live as someone with autism." The lasting value is in educating people about autism; how it changes their lives; and how it changes the lives of those with autism. Fundraising is a beneficial part of the project, but not the key qualifier making it an Eagle project.

The scout should be applauded. The race and educational aspects must have been quite something to put together and pull off.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby ThunderingWind » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:25 pm

I did not say this was a bad event or idea. I agree that the awareness/education issue can be great. But with the prizes being so large and valuable, it starts to not look like an Eagle Project.

I just asked the Council the question that most of have asked here, that being how did it pass the Fundraising test?

I know they may never respond. But if something was done in error, at least the Council may stop it from happening again.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:40 pm

I hear ya. You will never get a response unless you ask.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:08 pm

Ahhh... My apologies. Good point. I'm not used to the prizes aspect. I see also that ESLSP in 2008 was changed to include "Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials for carrying out the project." I could see a generous interpretation being that the prizes were needed to get people to the race to do the educational aspect. (generous interpretation)

QUESTION - Which ESLSP requirements should be in effect? ESLSP from when the scouts earns LIFE or the requirements current at the moment when the district committee signs off on starting the project? I could easily see a life scout stewing over a project for a year or two before starting and then finding new requirements impact his plans.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:23 pm

Fred Johnson wrote:Ahhh... My apologies. Good point. I'm not used to the prizes aspect. I see also that ESLSP in 2008 was changed to include "Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials for carrying out the project." I could see a generous interpretation being that the prizes were needed to get people to the race to do the educational aspect. (generous interpretation)

QUESTION - Which ESLSP requirements should be in effect? ESLSP from when the scouts earns LIFE or the requirements current at the moment when the district committee signs off on starting the project? I could easily see a life scout stewing over a project for a year or two before starting and then finding new requirements impact his plans.


Unless otherwise specified in the latest 2012 BSA requirements book, the ones in effect when the scout picks up and starts working on his ESLSP WB.

Scouts currently working on their EP WHEN the new GTA and new Eagle Workbook come out, will finish under the rules they started under if they choose. Just like when MB requirements change, the scout can finish under the old ones or shift to the new ones.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby Quailman » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:58 pm

Here's a fundraising project from Jacksonville in 2010.

http://m.jacksonville.com/news/metro/20 ... ut-project

And another from Saginaw, MI.

http://statelanesbowl.com/Covenant_Kids.html

Both seem to indicate that raising the funds was the goal of the project. Other races turned up on a search, but they were raising funds to finance a conventional project. One had a nomimal entry fee, plus a pair of new or gently used running shoes for a school in Mexico. There are some creative scouts out there.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby FieldSports » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:23 pm

Wow. That is one impressive project. Seems he is focused on running an event and education. The interview on TV showed a well mannered, well spoken Scout. He is only 14? Very mature.

The money side seems to be low in terms of focus and efforts. Let's not be to haste to rip on the funding. It does not seem like his project is "fundraising" focused and my guess is this is taking a tremendous amount of leadership on his part. I dont the council will answer any email that is negative on this one. The PR is over the top (How many Scouts get on morning TV to discuss their projects?? :D ).

Seems the intent of the fundraising rule is not to exclude fundraising, but to prevent the projects of "I am going to raise $xxxx's for charity XYZ" That clearly is not the case here.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby ThunderingWind » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:36 am

Not that it means anything, but the Council sent a "Read Receipt" back.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:02 pm

I'm going to go under the assumption that the councils know the rules about EP can't just be fundraisers. It's been that way for a very long time. What we don't have is the Eagle Workbook to see the entire write up to see what else the scout may be doing.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby Mrw » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:53 am

We had a boy who wanted his project to be a Guitar Hero competition to raise money for a food bank a few years ago. They approved the fund raiser with the proceeds to go to the food bank with the condition that the boy also take a group over and do some actual volunteer work at the bank as well. I think they built some shelving and helped sort and shelve materials with the boy leading the work crew.
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Re: How did this pass the review?

Postby ThunderingWind » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:05 pm

This response was just sent to me by the Council in question. I am very pleased that the Council opted to address the situation.

Thank you for your concern. This Eagle project has been approved by our District Eagle Project committee, which has confirmed that the fundraising is only on the behalf of the Autism group who is providing the marketing part of the project. The event is the project.
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