[RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby FieldSports » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:09 am

Again, the rules are the rules. Good that one's council CAC or DAC "opinion" does not determine the rules. They are written by National. All of this nonsense of "fundraising" stops in a heart beat when you ask the simple question of "where do I find this in writing". Always ask nicely, but it is not written. Then when a ".......rule or law are unfair, he seeks to have them changed in an orderly way" Biglou, have your Eagle canadate take this issue up with the CE (yes the CE, because it is the CAC). Teachable moment not only for the scout, but probably for the CAC.

smtroop168 - your right it turned out that his project was not 100% funded by dad. His EB said that was his known source at the time. He took it upon himself to not get all the funds from me. Even better for him!! Planning the budget and managing it are required (asked for), begging for funds is NOT part of the learning process. If it were, then it would be required. If it was required it would be written.

I donate willingly and enjoy it. Eagle projects are the best to help :!: :!: . They are the peak of scout donations. The YOUTH developing leadership skills and directly helping a community. Personally, when push came to shove in a given year, I have not done the FOS donation in favor of Eagle project fundings.

The EP is about providing leadership to a project. Knowing and planning your budget/costs is required. Getting the capital source can be delgated to others (as any good CE will tell you :lol: ) IMHO that is why there is not a "fundraising" requirement (not to mention the FOS conflicts that I have seen (somehow the council always came first :twisted: )
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby WeeWillie » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:31 pm

My Scouts have done projects for the National Forest Service, National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, The Nature Conservancy, and AZ State Parks. In each situation the agency had the materials and just needed labor and welcome organizations such as Scouts to do work that they otherwise have to pay a contractor. No fund raising needed.
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:33 pm

WeeWillie wrote:My Scouts have done projects for the National Forest Service, National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, The Nature Conservancy, and AZ State Parks. In each situation the agency had the materials and just needed labor and welcome organizations such as Scouts to do work that they otherwise have to pay a contractor. No fund raising needed.


I like these groups too but I always make sure the scout isn't just being used as labor and he can show leadership. Sometimes when the "do this part of the trail, here's the tools, bring your guys" projects occur, the scout can just be along for the ride if you're not careful.
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby WeeWillie » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:15 pm

Not to worry! District works with each of the agencies to insure quality control. It also helps that many agencies have employees who are Scouters and/or Eagles. I rejected two projects because they were just provide warm bodies (trash removal & digging.)

We always have a SM or ASM present to insure all ELSPs are Scout organized, Scout lead events.

Mom and Dad are a bigger problem than the agency rangers!
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:28 pm

WeeWillie wrote:Mom and Dad are a bigger problem than the agency rangers!


Amen to that!
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby FrankJ » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:26 pm

Those pesky parents again. Taking an interest in the upbringing of Johnny Scout. :D :lol: :wink:
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby WeeWillie » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:07 pm

It has been my experience that the first to complain are the last to volunteer to be a SM, ASM, CC, or CM. If a parent is going to be involved in Johnny Scout than he or she should actually get involved.

Several years ago pipestone, a former forum member, complained about an Eagle candidate sitting in his van with his IPOD, while Dad supervised the ELSP.

I encouraged my Scouts to participate in ELSP sponsored by Eagle candidates from other troops. During one such ELSP my Scouts reported that Dad took over his son's project while the Scout goofed off. A few months latter the newly minted Eagle Scout could not tie a square knot at the camporee knot station. I was the grader.

Two years ago, two dads from different troops collaberated with an ELSP and had the sons turn in their project paperwork to their respective SMs. I was the second SM. My guy forgot to change all the places where his name appeared, and the file properties. We confronted with the situation Mom admitted the cheating.

We have parents who are so focussed on having Eagle Scout on their son's job or college application that they are willing to cheat to get it done. What is the impact on their Scout's character and self esteem?

By the way, my Scout who collaberated with his ELSP attempted suicide because of the unrelenting pressure to suceed. (Not just in Scouts)
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:33 am

I hear ya. If you talk to any troop worth being in, you will get the same stories. :) You will will get stories of drive by parents only stopping long enough for Johnie to get in & out of the car, if that. I almost prefer the former. You also see parents who are leaders gone before the ink dries on eagle app. Most are between the extremes.

You also have a national policy of active=national dues paid. POR means listed in position. These position undoubtedly comes from appeals from troops having unrealistic expectations in the other direction.

Despite all it flaws. BSA has one of the best youth programs going.
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:07 pm

FrankJ wrote:I hear ya. If you talk to any troop worth being in, you will get the same stories. :) You will will get stories of drive by parents only stopping long enough for Johnie to get in & out of the car, if that. I almost prefer the former. You also see parents who are leaders gone before the ink dries on eagle app. Most are between the extremes.

You also have a national policy of active=national dues paid. POR means listed in position. These position undoubtedly comes from appeals from troops having unrealistic expectations in the other direction.

Despite all it flaws. BSA has one of the best youth programs going.

Nicely written.
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby Billiken » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:52 pm

WeeWillie wrote:By the way, my Scout who collaberated with his ELSP attempted suicide because of the unrelenting pressure to suceed. (Not just in Scouts)


Sad.
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:53 pm

FrankJ wrote:You also have a national policy of active=national dues paid. POR means listed in position.


These are both being tweeked and should have some different wording in the next version of the ACPP currently in the review stages.
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby biglou » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:39 am

smtroop168 wrote:
FrankJ wrote:You also have a national policy of active=national dues paid. POR means listed in position.


These are both being tweeked and should have some different wording in the next version of the ACPP currently in the review stages.



I thought that there was 3 parts to being active. One being you must be actively engaged by the adult leadership. Just curious
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby FrankJ » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:02 am

This is my observation & opinion. I have no direct connection with the folks at national & do not speak for them. In in the advancement book definition of active, there are three elements. 1) registration fees paid, 2)not dismissed for conduct, 3) engaged by leadership. Assuming the scout is not dismissed for conduct, element 1 is the one in his control. 3 is the responsibility of the leadership not the the scout. So for the normal situation it boils down to fees paid.

As a every day matter. If you are using a reasonable definition of active & not using it as a road block, it will held up until it gets appealed to national. Most people will read the handbook & understand that active means some kind of meaningful participation in the troop.
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:08 am

FrankJ wrote:This is my observation & opinion. I have no direct connection with the folks at national & do not speak for them. In in the advancement book definition of active, there are three elements. 1) registration fees paid, 2)not dismissed for conduct, 3) engaged by leadership. Assuming the scout is not dismissed for conduct, element 1 is the one in his control. 3 is the responsibility of the leadership not the the scout. So for the normal situation it boils down to fees paid.

As a every day matter. If you are using a reasonable definition of active & not using it as a road block, it will held up until it gets appealed to national. Most people will read the handbook & understand that active means some kind of meaningful participation in the troop.


Actually in the 2010 BSA requirements book there is a 4th:

4. In communication with the unit leader on a quarterly basis
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Re: [RENAMED] CAC Mandating "Fund Raiser" for All Eagle Projects

Postby eaglesmom » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:03 pm

Good grief, and all along I thought that it was required to do a fundraiser. I always wondered why kids in other states did not have to.
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