Everything's done?

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Everything's done?

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:38 pm

Scout shows up on your doorstep as a transfer from another in town troop. He has "everything done" except his SMC and wants an EBOR as soon as possible.

Any one else experience this before? Any Definition for you for "as soon as possible"?
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby ThunderingWind » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:18 pm

You: OK, young man, please show me your Project book and walk me through what you did. And as we talk, I am going to ask a few more questions about your Scouting experience and the project.

(note: This is not a re-test or judgement, etc....you tell the young man that these are similar questions
that will be asked by the board and that having just transferred, you are only thrying to get a better
understanding of the situation so you can provide the aforementionded SMC, sign his application and forward
it to the Council Office for proper processing).

Have not seen your exact situation but have had a "Direct Support Scout" transfer from Argentina (Father was military attache at Embassy) needing an SMC for Life. He was very willing to sit with a panel of ASMs, share his Scouting experiences with us, explain how things were done there and how he got credit for things without a Troop. We learned a lot and had no trouble supporting his request. He (and his parents) understood that we needed to learn the facts. And we went so far as to state since a Scout is honest, we will support his transfer anyway, but wanted to use this process to help us learn and to help him integrate.

We were able to get the Dad to join the Committee and soon after become the Advancement Chair.

Bottom line to this - get the parents involved on this transfer from a positive perspective and get the kid on board with sharing his story. If it looks or sounds fishy, kindly direct him to another unit or the Lone Scout program (NOT the Direct Support Scout program - they are different).
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby WVBeaver05 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:58 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Scout shows up on your doorstep as a transfer from another in town troop. He has "everything done" except his SMC and wants an EBOR as soon as possible.

Any one else experience this before? Any Definition for you for "as soon as possible"?

I'm thinking that I would have to get some more information about the whole situation.

Especially, whether "as soon as possible" is because of approaching 18th birthday.

YiS
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:11 pm

I'm the District rep who will do the EBOR when scheduled. He's not a military kid. 16 y/o. I don't have all the details on why the scout is transferring at the 11th hour but experience tells me that its not good. The only document I have is his EP where he had his new SM sign the project as complete even though the scout was not in the troop at the time the EP was worked on. I have a few concerns about the EP execution. Should I call the old troop and get more info or see what happens at the EBOR?

Thanks.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby FrankJ » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:04 am

Definitely a place where a phone call is in order. I would be up front with the scout & ask if there is a specific person to talk to (or not), and if there is a back story, what is his side of it. Especially at 16, there is not a rush for an EBOR so these questions should be answered before then.

There is also a transfer form that should have been filled out with earned merit badges and so forth.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:56 am

Matt,
You must run into his other Troop Leadership at Roundtables, etc. ASK what's going on. And, it might be a GREAT idea to invite one of them to sit on his EBoR. I had a young man do that recently, but before his EP was started and executed. He had had a run in with an overly involved CC. But, I invited his old SM to sit on his EBoR and he was VERY supportive. The boy passed with flying colors. But, I learned EVERYTHING I could about the situation first. Did this with phone calls, meetings and greetings. We included his parents in all that was learned, too.
Whatever the reason, you need to know all that is possible about the facts. If it is uncomfortable for you, get the SE involved to gather all the info. I do think this sounds "fishy!"

YIS
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:40 am

smtroop168 wrote:I'm the District rep who will do the EBOR when scheduled. He's not a military kid. 16 y/o. I don't have all the details on why the scout is transferring at the 11th hour but experience tells me that its not good. The only document I have is his EP where he had his new SM sign the project as complete even though the scout was not in the troop at the time the EP was worked on. I have a few concerns about the EP execution. Should I call the old troop and get more info or see what happens at the EBOR?

So this Scout has not transferred into your Troop?
He came to you, on his own, to schedule his own EBOR, because you are on the District Advancement Committee?
The only paperwork you have is his Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook?

Where is his Eagle Rank application, and his references? According to the 12 Steps to Eagle -

The application should be signed by the unit leader at the proper place. The unit committee reviews and approves the record of the Eagle candidate before the application is submitted to the local council.

The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, properly filled out, must be submitted with the application.

When the completed application is received at the council service center, its contents will be verified and the references contacted.

and finally -
After the contents of an application have been verified and appropriately signed, the application, Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, and references will be returned from the council service center to the chairman of the Eagle board of review so that a board of review may be scheduled. Under no circumstances should a board of review be scheduled until the application is returned to the chairman of the Eagle board of review.

So to answer your question, without an Eagle application, approved by your council, you can not schedule an EBOR.

Contact his new SM to find out where the application is, and why it was not submitted, along with the Leadership Service Project Workbook, to the council Service Center. The answers you get might be very revealing.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby evmori » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:57 am

Questions abound!

What unit are you transferring from?
Who is the SM of this unit?
Do you have your advancement records from this unit?
Why are you transferring?


After these are answered and the former unit is contacted, then we can discuss your Eagle.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:07 am

No he not transferring in to my troop.

Nuts4scouts....I know all the 12 steps. I've done close to 50 EBORs but never one like this. The other paperwork is in process. I got the EP because I did not review and approve the EP because he was in another troop. (We have 8 DAC members each who "own" 3-5 troops for the EP and EBORs).

I am trying to get additional info. The question is how much pre-investigative info is appropriate and how much and what info that is discovered should be shared with all the other EBOR members that may be hearsay and prejudicial.

Based on what I know so far, it might not be a great idea to invite any of the previous troop leadership to sit onthe EBOR and I don't think they would agree to it anyway.

Have a great turkey day!
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:00 pm

While this Scout's problems in/with his old Troop might be of interest to his new SM to help him, help this Scout, I fail to see how they are any business of an EBOR. Unless you run an investigation on every prospective Eagle Scout that comes to you, I think this is best left up to the Scout's new unit.

The only thing a council, district, or an EBOR should be interested in, and discussing, is weather or not all of the requirements for Eagle were completed.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby FrankJ » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:35 pm

It is worth the pre EBOR investigation in a case like this to be there are no show stoppers that will give a negative result. If all the book requirements are met, the eagle filled out, & the scout insists on the ebor, you need to give him one. If you know of any the show stoppers, then the scout should be made aware of them as well.

As for as the eagle project is concerned, if it was approved by district, and essentially done as approved. you really need to accept it, even if you were not involved in the approval.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:37 pm

We had a situation like this four years ago. The scout turned out to be a wonderful young many who I have a lot of respect for. After earning his Eagle at 16, he stuck around until he was 18 and served as the best troop guide I've seen.

Also, I have a lot of respect for our SM because of how he handled it. He called the other troop's scoutmaster. Chatted about it. It essentially came down to lots of leadership turn over in the old troop, lots of misunderstandings by multiple people, hurt feelings and frustrations. Our scoutmaster transferred him into our troop, did the SMC and the scout earned his Eagle.

For this situation, the question I have is... You said he needs a SMC still. You said he's not transferring to your troop. Is he registered with his old troop? Can he get his SMC done through his old troop? If not, is he transferring to another troop where he will get a SMC done? Does the BSA allow someone outside his troop to do his SMC? I just curious. It's an interesting corner case.

If it were me ... and it's not ... I'd see if there was a way to mend that relationship with the old troop. If there isn't, then I'd look to get him registered into a troop that will help him close things out.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:39 pm

Fred Johnson wrote:We had a situation like this four years ago. The scout turned out to be a wonderful young many who I have a lot of respect for. After earning his Eagle at 16, he stuck around until he was 18 and served as the best troop guide I've seen.

Also, I have a lot of respect for our SM because of how he handled it. He called the other troop's scoutmaster. Chatted about it. It essentially came down to lots of leadership turn over in the old troop, lots of misunderstandings by multiple people, hurt feelings and frustrations. Our scoutmaster transferred him into our troop, did the SMC and the scout earned his Eagle.

For this situation, the question I have is... You said he needs a SMC still. You said he's not transferring to your troop. Is he registered with his old troop? Can he get his SMC done through his old troop? If not, is he transferring to another troop where he will get a SMC done? Does the BSA allow someone outside his troop to do his SMC? I just curious. It's an interesting corner case.

If it were me ... and it's not ... I'd see if there was a way to mend that relationship with the old troop. If there isn't, then I'd look to get him registered into a troop that will help him close things out.


More info. He is registered in the new Troop. Left the old troop after he was sent home from Summer Camp (with 3 others) for a behavioral incident. The question is should the new SM wait and hold a SMC 1 month, 2 months, 10 minutes after he comes into his troop? Concerned about other Life Scouts impressions, as you know the kids have probably more knowledge about the incident, than the adults do.



FrankJ wrote:It is worth the pre EBOR investigation in a case like this to be there are no show stoppers that will give a negative result. If all the book requirements are met, the eagle filled out, & the scout insists on the ebor, you need to give him one. If you know of any the show stoppers, then the scout should be made aware of them as well.

As for as the eagle project is concerned, if it was approved by district, and essentially done as approved. you really need to accept it, even if you were not involved in the approval.


More info....EP changes section has a significant scope change which does not look like he went back and had the 4 approval signatures cut in on the new plan.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby evmori » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:08 pm

Without more details, it's all speculation.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:17 am

evmori wrote:Without more details, it's all speculation.


Yep I know...the original question was/is do you wait for a period of time while this kid settles into his new troop or do you go right to a EBOR?
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:36 am

Since the he has not had a SMC yet, and paperwork has not been turned in, I'd say it was pretty much up to his current SM.

Weather or not his current SM puts him in for his EBOR immediately, depends on how well he knows this Scout, and how he feels about the circumstances with the other Troop.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby Bill Pitcher » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:23 am

I have a situation where a boy was told he would NOT be re-registered with his old troop because of a behavior problem AND he wanted credit for an EP without getting the 4 signatures to start. He found a new troop that took him in. I put him on a 3 month probation where I had constant contact with the new SM and CC. They were well aware of his previous problems, but they worked with him. I did also, but informed he and his parents that he would have to find a new project. They knew better having had 3 other sons go through the process.
Anyway, long story short, he worked with 4 other LS's in his new troop with their EP's, "saw the light", did as great job as an ASPL and now Troop Guide, did a great new project, and is NOW ready for his EBoR. The new troop is now proud of him, and he has 5 EXCELLENT references! Work with all parties, Matt, you never know!
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby Fred Johnson » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:34 pm

Nuts4Scouts wrote:Since the he has not had a SMC yet, and paperwork has not been turned in, I'd say it was pretty much up to his current SM.

Weather or not his current SM puts him in for his EBOR immediately, depends on how well he knows this Scout, and how he feels about the circumstances with the other Troop.

I fully agree. It's really up to his new SM and the comfort level of the new scoutmaster. But, I'd hate to see him accepted into a new troop and then have that new troop punish him for the issues/experiences in the old troop. Of course it's a judgement call. But if in doubt, favor the scout and help him succeed. If the scout really only has a SMC and a EBOR left and there are no criminal proceedings ( :lol: ), give him good support earning Eagle. Hopefully with that good experience he'll stick around long enough so that the new troop has a positive effect on him.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby WeeWillie » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:36 am

So as lomg as past behavior don't rise to criminal offenses he shouldn't be "punished" for what occurred in his previous unit. This situation is so unusual that it merits careful investigation at troop, district level.
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Re: Everything's done?

Postby smtroop168 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:59 pm

I'm more concerned with the execution of his EP as it's hard to figure out how he actually led the EP, but should he get a free pass for being kicked out of summer camp and heading to a new troop for cover?

EBOR is 12/15 so I'll let you know what happens.
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