Need some advice here

Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

Need some advice here

Postby biglou » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:30 am

Well folks,

I need some advice here. I got an e-mail from a parent tonight which I am going to copy and paste the text and edit the name. It is as follows:

"Scout is taking the Dale Carnegie course. This takes place every Monday night until sometime in December.He needs advisement on what to do for physical fitness, family life and camping. And then about his Eagle Scout project.He had only 9 months and time is running out."

The Scout has not attended a single meeting this year and has attended maybe a total of plus or minus 15 the two years prior to that. Keep in mind that my Troop meets year round and we took two weeks off during the year. He has also had several Scoutmaster Conferences where he was told that he needed to participate way more than he has. He uses the excuse that "I participate in Sports and cannot make it". Well, when I have kids showing up late in their muddy practice uniforms tells me that they are vested in the program.

I am trying to word my response as carefully as possible. The parent's are trying to force their son into being an Eagle Scout. I sat in a committee meeting and was told that he had no choice. I think he has made his choice. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
Big Lou

Insert witty tag line here! LOL
biglou
Eagle
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Bucktail Council, PA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Billiken » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:32 am

What a frustrating pain in the neck.

My reply is that "<Scout's Name> should contact me for a Scoutmaster Conference"

CONSIDERATIONS
Does the Scout have the required 20 tent camping nights for Camping MB?
The walk/run a mile every two weeks for 12 weeks in Physical Fitness MB is sometimes hard to do in the winter time (snow).
Has he satisfied (to the SM's discretion) the six months of Position of Responsibility requirements?

Three things to note when you talk with the Scout.

As we know from previous threads, if he's BSA registered, he's considered active.
"The only problem with Boy Scouts is, there aren't enough of them." Will Rogers
Billiken
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:27 pm
Location: Greater Cleveland Council

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Mrw » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:19 am

I agree that the parent needs to be told you will work with the scout, but that he needs to contact you to set up a meeting time to go over things and help him work out a plan to get it all done. And even if this takes place outside of a regular scout meeting and he needs to bring a buddy (or you do...), the parents should not be a part of this conversation. You need to know whether the BOY is wanting this and willing to work at it, or whether this is all about mom or dad.
Mother of two Eagles and troop Advancement Chair
Mrw
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:49 pm
Location: Greater Cleveland

Re: Need some advice here

Postby lambeausam » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:43 am

I would suggest a scoutmaster conference and help the kid lay out a plan. Have him bring a list of every requirement he has left to do. Let him fill in a calendar with all the items. In doing so, you are providing him the opportunity, but leaving it to him to use the opportunity. Seeing it on a timeline will either encourage the young man to get his buns in gear or help him realize that achieving the final rank is not feasible by throwing things together at the end. Emphasize unit participation and remind him that these are the same folks that he will most likely be soliciting for assistance during the Eagle project.

I agree with MRW's comment about the parents - no participation from them during the conference.

Sam
lambeausam
Life
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Need some advice here

Postby biglou » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:18 pm

I sent a copy of this e-mail to my ASMs, COR, Institutional Head, the Committee Advancement Chair and another trusted Committee Member. Well, one response that I have recieved is "Who is Scout?" :lol:

I have with two other ASMs present had three Scoutmaster Conferences with the Scout in the past. He just pays us lip service and says that he wants this. But I really feel he is afraid to tell his parents that he does not want to be an Eagle Scout.
Big Lou

Insert witty tag line here! LOL
biglou
Eagle
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Bucktail Council, PA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby biglou » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:22 pm

Forgot to add that he does not have the 20 days and nights for camping and has not met any of the requirements for Camping Merit Badge. I am waiting to get a blue card from this Scout signed by a counselor that says he has completed this Merit Badge. I am just wondering who he will be getting the blue card from since he has not been at a meeting.
Big Lou

Insert witty tag line here! LOL
biglou
Eagle
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Bucktail Council, PA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:06 pm

Lou...Here's some "advisement"

Sounds like he will have a hard time completing the Camping MB requirements. Do you have good records on how many of the 20 he has?

Also when did he make Life? Did he serve in a POR and no one pulled him out for not serving "actively"? Below is an except of a document I sent out to my guys on PORs.

There are two important requirements that sometimes are confusing to scouts. The BSA defines “Active” as essentially a scout who is registered and has a paid up membership. So basically if a scout is on the Annual Charter, he meets the “Active” requirement for Star/Life/Eagle.
Serving “Actively” in one of the Positions of Responsibility (formerly known as Leadership Positions) for a varying length of time (1st Class to Star is 4 months and Star to Life and Life to Eagle is 6 months) is a completely different requirement and scouts must perform their assigned duty through regular attendance at troop meetings, other troop events and what we call “Greenbars”. We will be changing PORs in the month of September. If you want to volunteer for one of the positions, let the SPL know.


Also seems like you have already had more than one SMC with this scout. Have one more and lay it out for him.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:32 pm

Weather or not committee members or the COR know this boy, is not the point. You know him.

How many meetings he has attended in the past does not matter. He was never taken off of the charter so he is still one of your Scouts.

He, or his family, have reached out to you now. You have a chance, possibly your last chance, to reach this boy. Don't blow it.

I agree with letting the parents know that the Scout himself must contact you to arrange a time when you can get together. Instead of having a SMC and simply talking AT him, sit down with him, go over the requirements he still needs to finish, and help him come up with a plan, and a timetable. Have him write his timetable down. Give him the blue cards he needs, along with contact info for their Councilors. In his plan/timetable, include dates when you will get together again to re-access where he is in his plan.

Don't just come up with reasons why he will/can not make Eagle. Work WITH him. Then, IF he does not make it, it will because HE did not want to, NOT because YOU didn't want to help him.
Nuts4Scouts
Eagle
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:17 am
Location: Des Plaines Valley

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Mrw » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:43 pm

biglou wrote:Forgot to add that he does not have the 20 days and nights for camping and has not met any of the requirements for Camping Merit Badge. I am waiting to get a blue card from this Scout signed by a counselor that says he has completed this Merit Badge. I am just wondering who he will be getting the blue card from since he has not been at a meeting.



Wow! This kid is 17 and has not had 20 nights of scout camping in 6 years? Just wow....
Mother of two Eagles and troop Advancement Chair
Mrw
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:49 pm
Location: Greater Cleveland

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Fred Johnson » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:25 pm

Nuts4Scouts wrote:Don't just come up with reasons why he will/can not make Eagle. Work WITH him. Then, IF he does not make it, it will because HE did not want to, NOT because YOU didn't want to help him.


:D :D :D Great answer. :D :D :D This is all about the scout and our only job is to help them succeed.
Fred Johnson
Life
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 5:45 pm

Re: Need some advice here

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:04 pm

Fred Johnson wrote:
Nuts4Scouts wrote:Don't just come up with reasons why he will/can not make Eagle. Work WITH him. Then, IF he does not make it, it will because HE did not want to, NOT because YOU didn't want to help him.


:D :D :D Great answer. :D :D :D This is all about the scout and our only job is to help them succeed.



Absolutely its our job to help them succeed. As in most posts we don't have the entire picture so in his case, he may not have the time to complete the requirements so a sit down and going over everything he needs to finish is in order. If he only has a few D/Ns he may need to camp with other units to earn the Camping MB. If he hasn't started PF or FL, he's eating up 3 months of the 9 he has until 18. If he hasn't even begun to think about an EP, he's in a timecrunch to get it planned, approved and executed. And if he's not going to actively participate in a POR, then he won't complete that requirement.

I just did an EBOR where the scouts Life BOR was 2/1/10 and he turned 18 on 8/22/10 so it can be done, but this kid dropped everything else to get his Eagle award.

I think Lou is concerned on who wants the Eagle given the comments at his CM.
biglou wrote:The parent's are trying to force their son into being an Eagle Scout. I sat in a committee meeting and was told that he had no choice. I think he has made his choice.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Fred Johnson » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:53 pm

smtroop168 - I was applauding the attitude expressed by Nuts4Scouts. I think he hit it dead on right. I too doubt the scout will get Eagle. BUT ... I think it is very important that we focus on supporting the scout so that if he does not get Eagle he can use it as a learning experience about himself instead of developing a grievance against others who got in his way.

IMHO, if we do anything else, like spend time deciding if a scout is worthy of being an Eagle scout, then we should really re-think if volunteering as a scout leader is for us. Scouts set their own fate per the BSA requirements. We support the scout.

For example, if he doesn't have the 20 nights of camping for the camping Merit Badge, we let him know that and help him develop a plan for how he can earn those nights if it is still at all possible. We don't have to drive him to each event or register him for them or pay for them or camp with him. The scout earns his achievements. We support the scout by helping him think through the process and let him know about available options, if there are any.
Fred Johnson
Life
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 5:45 pm

Re: Need some advice here

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:38 pm

Fred Johnson wrote: The scout earns his achievements.


Bingo! I read between the lines and think Big Lou's concerns is that the parents are pushing to have the scout "earn" his requirements.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:40 pm

smtroop168 wrote:I think Lou is concerned on who wants the Eagle given the comments at his CM.
biglou wrote:The parent's are trying to force their son into being an Eagle Scout. I sat in a committee meeting and was told that he had no choice. I think he has made his choice.

So, the way to find out if the Scout is really committed now, or not, is to simply say "I think he has made his choice", and close the book on him?

To me, that is Lou giving up on the Scout, NOT the Scout, giving up on Eagle.
Nuts4Scouts
Eagle
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:17 am
Location: Des Plaines Valley

Re: Need some advice here

Postby Fred Johnson » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:58 pm

It doesn't matter who wants the Eagle rank, scout or parent. The scout is not disqualified just because he has a parent who wants it more than the scout. If anything, that scout should have our sympathy. Home life can't be that fun.

As volunteer adult leaders, our job is to support the scout, not the parent. If the scout completes the requirements, he earns his rank.
Fred Johnson
Life
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 5:45 pm

Re: Need some advice here

Postby ThunderingWind » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:38 pm

I have got a four season tent and ZERO degree sleeping bag.

Make sure the kid has plenty of food and coffee and I will come
camp with him over Christmas break if HE makes
sure we can camp at Camp Seph Mack (Penn's Woods Council).

He will earn rifle MB while there and maybe a few more (cooking
comes to mind).
No Longer a Registered Scouter
ThunderingWind
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:16 pm
Location: longer affiliated with the BSA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby kwildman » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:44 am

Definately seperate the scout from the parents. come up with a plan and put it in his hands. Not sure how any scout could be in a troop that long and not have 20 nights of camping. We get that and some in our first year if the scouts attend everything. Camping with TW will get get him his winter camping experience but you are going to need a hike, rappel, climb, bike, or canoe to fill the other camping experieince.
No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. - Lord Baden-Powell
kwildman
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Simon Kenton Council

Re: Need some advice here

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:56 am

kwildman wrote:Not sure how any scout could be in a troop that long and not have 20 nights of camping.


Not attend as Lou said. :(
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby ThunderingWind » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:49 pm

kwildman wrote:...snipped... Camping with TW will get get him his winter camping experience but you are going to need a hike, rappel, climb, bike, or canoe to fill the other camping experieince.

I can make sure he has a hike and bike easily, if HE wants it. What else does he need?
No Longer a Registered Scouter
ThunderingWind
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:16 pm
Location: longer affiliated with the BSA

Re: Need some advice here

Postby biglou » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:22 am

Hmmmmmmm.......SOme pretty interesting stuff here. I have sat down with this Scout and he just pays the ASMs and myself lip service. I hate to say that I don't want to waste my time with him. He hates to go camping with us. He will not go on any other outdoor activities we have done. We did a simple little hike and he was "too busy" to go. I have driven down Main St. and watched him walk by on several occasions when we were having Scout meetings. His peers have already hinted to me and the other adults that he is not interested in Scouts. I don't know what else to say.
Big Lou

Insert witty tag line here! LOL
biglou
Eagle
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Bucktail Council, PA

Next

Return to Eagle Scout

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests