Conflicting Guidance?

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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 19, 2010 10:57 am

Where does it say in the BSA requirements that they have to go before a committee to approve these?
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby FrankJ » Wed May 19, 2010 12:07 pm

Realize that this is the same committee that thinks you should not get eagle before 17 because you will leave the troop so they have plenty of time. :?: :P :)
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed May 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Cowboy wrote:So far (in my time) we have not had any boys who used another boys ELSP as his Life or Star service. Most of the boys come up with an idea of thier own, and run from there. My son worked at our local fair "parking cars" for one and helped place fish cribs for another. If a boy "refused" to come before the committee, then away he would go to do his project with "only" the SM approval. Our committee meets every month, even in the summer, and a little planning ahead goes a long way. Let's face it, they have 4 months and 6 months for rank and most of the time they already have ideas in mind before they board for a rank.

Requirements for Star and Life say " . . . with your SM's approval." Sending the boy to the Troop Committee is adding to the requirements. So a combination of helping others who Do come up with a service project, an ESLP, Scouting For Food, or some 1-2 hour project on their own is ALL RIGHT by us . . . if the hours are SM approved.
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby Mrw » Wed May 19, 2010 9:56 pm

Our boys are encouraged to do service hours regardless of whether they need them for the rank. They track them and the SM signs off on them in their books when they present to him what they have done. Quite simple and ensures they are doing something worth calling service.
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby smtroop168 » Thu May 20, 2010 4:18 pm

Cowboy wrote:So far (in my time) we have not had any boys who used another boys ELSP as his Life or Star service. Most of the boys come up with an idea of thier own, and run from there. My son worked at our local fair "parking cars" for one and helped place fish cribs for another. If a boy "refused" to come before the committee, then away he would go to do his project with "only" the SM approval. Our committee meets every month, even in the summer, and a little planning ahead goes a long way. Let's face it, they have 4 months and 6 months for rank and most of the time they already have ideas in mind before they board for a rank.


So its okay to add to the requirements? I recall you were having fits with adding to the requirements with regard to your son's Eagle Process.
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby wagionvigil » Thu May 20, 2010 4:27 pm

smtroop168 wrote:
Cowboy wrote:So far (in my time) we have not had any boys who used another boys ELSP as his Life or Star service. Most of the boys come up with an idea of thier own, and run from there. My son worked at our local fair "parking cars" for one and helped place fish cribs for another. If a boy "refused" to come before the committee, then away he would go to do his project with "only" the SM approval. Our committee meets every month, even in the summer, and a little planning ahead goes a long way. Let's face it, they have 4 months and 6 months for rank and most of the time they already have ideas in mind before they board for a rank.


So its okay to add to the requirements? I recall you were having fits with adding to the requirements with regard to your son's Eagle Process.

:evil:
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Thu May 20, 2010 5:22 pm

Hours that are pre-approved by the Scoutmaster can be used for rank. All others, we track for the http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/index.cfm and/or http://www.congressionalaward.org.

While planning certainly is a good skill to have, community service hours often come up unexpectedly.
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby smtroop168 » Thu May 20, 2010 7:59 pm

AquilaNegra2 wrote:Hours that are pre-approved by the Scoutmaster can be used for rank. All others, we track for the http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/index.cfm and/or http://www.congressionalaward.org.

While planning certainly is a good skill to have, community service hours often come up unexpectedly.


Absolutely...our guys have Catholic School service hours to do as well so they can double count without "Committee approval"

Wagion...I assume the :evil: was for me. It's not right to talk out of both sides of your mouth about requirements and should work to convince the Comm what they are requiring is not right.
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby wagionvigil » Thu May 20, 2010 8:03 pm

smtroop168 wrote:
AquilaNegra2 wrote:Hours that are pre-approved by the Scoutmaster can be used for rank. All others, we track for the http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/index.cfm and/or http://www.congressionalaward.org.

While planning certainly is a good skill to have, community service hours often come up unexpectedly.


Absolutely...our guys have Catholic School service hours to do as well so they can double count without "Committee approval"

Wagion...I assume the :evil: was for me. It's not right to talk out of both sides of your mouth about requirements and should work to convince the Comm what they are requiring is not right.

No actually it was for talking out both sides of their mouth
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby smtroop168 » Thu May 20, 2010 9:10 pm

Wasn't sure, I was a little snippy. :D
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby WeeWillie » Fri May 21, 2010 4:46 am

The service project requirements for Star and Life does not require pre-approval by anyone and certainly not the committee. Scouts routinely use ELSP participation for their Star or Life service project. ELSPs are frequently announced at Round Table.
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby wagionvigil » Fri May 21, 2010 6:34 am

smtroop168 wrote:Wasn't sure, I was a little snippy. :D

You know when you are wrong!
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby razor_strop » Fri May 21, 2010 9:58 am

AquilaNegra2 wrote:Hours that are pre-approved by the Scoutmaster can be used for rank. All others, we track for the http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/index.cfm and/or http://www.congressionalaward.org.


That's a great idea! We have several Scouts that regularly show up to various service projects, even if they don't need the hours for advancement; this would be a nice way to recognize them for going above and beyond. Thanks!
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Re: Conflicting Guidance?

Postby scoutaholic » Fri May 21, 2010 2:39 pm

razor_strop wrote:
AquilaNegra2 wrote:Hours that are pre-approved by the Scoutmaster can be used for rank. All others, we track for the http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/index.cfm and/or http://www.congressionalaward.org.


That's a great idea! We have several Scouts that regularly show up to various service projects, even if they don't need the hours for advancement; this would be a nice way to recognize them for going above and beyond. Thanks!



The Presidents Volunteer Service awards are a great program. The difficulty is that you can't just order the awards, you have to have a certifying organization do it for you. There are several organizations registered, and they are listed on the site and searchable by location. You can register your troop as a certifying organization if you want, but many probably don't want the hassle. As a webmaster/designer/programmer of a scouting website, I registered as a certifying organization a few years ago. I have had several people, (mostly scouts and their families) order their awards through me. Some have even come back every year to get more. I'm always willing to help with these if you want to contact me.

This is the first I've seen the Congressional Award. I may have to check more into the details of that one.
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