Just when you thought you had heard everything

Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:41 pm

evmori wrote:Setting a terrible precedent.


Ed....Ya think??? This is not your Midsummer's night dream. :cry:
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby FrankJ » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:46 pm

The tone of this thread started out against the SM & he should be removed. Now it seems he was justified & the scout was in the wrong. What is the real answer? We are not going to know. That is the trouble with the internet.

Could be the SM actions were reasonable with what he knew. I will not sign off a scout that I have strong issues with. I will also tell him how to appeal this. (Thus far a purely theoretical idea.) Maybe the DE knows something we do not. Like since all the requirements were completed while registered so the "rules" says he gets a BOR even without SM approval. Or maybe he was the DEs nephew. I do not think we are going to find out.

I think it is a good weekend to take some scouts camping.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby Billiken » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:37 pm

FrankJ wrote:I think it is a good weekend to take some scouts camping.


Amen.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:57 pm

Billiken wrote:
FrankJ wrote:I think it is a good weekend to take some scouts camping.


Amen.


Let's go!

Actually, I think the SM erred in not stepping back and getting some help prior to signing the Eagle application especially if the scout had issues. Once he signed it, to cut out his signature block out of the form was clearly not the way to go.

The DAC was livid because the DE allowed the scout's father to set up a BOR outside the normal procedures of the district. This DAC been doing EBORs for years and obviously felt like the DE and scout's father were trying to get this boy through.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby evmori » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:38 am

smtroop168 wrote:
evmori wrote:Setting a terrible precedent.


Ed....Ya think??? This is not your Midsummer's night dream. :cry:


Don't bet on it!


The tone of this thread started out against the SM & he should be removed. Now it seems he was justified & the scout was in the wrong. What is the real answer? We are not going to know. That is the trouble with the internet.


I'm not sure I agree with that. It appears the Scout has been the one in the wrong all along.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby Mrw » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:46 am

Sounds like plenty of wrong to go around here. Unfortunate that things like this happen.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:11 pm

Mrw wrote:Sounds like plenty of wrong to go around here. Unfortunate that things like this happen.


Agree.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby WeeWillie » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:27 pm

An EBOR that was conducted while is Scout is not registered is not valid. The SM and DAC should make a formal complaint to the Council Executive since a DE is involved in the situation. I don't know what the DE and father were thinking, but the date mismatch and lack of SM signature will be caught at National unless the the Council forges documents and registrations.

Do not be so quick to blame the Scout. I have encountered too many Eagle at all costs parents who put too much pressure on their sons. In several instances, the boy didn't want to be in Scouts in the 1st place or Scouts was lower on his priority list than his other activities.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby cballman » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:30 pm

Also think about something else. Parents go over SM and DAC heads to DE WOW sounds like somebody had a FOS donation of a chunk of change to get this to go through. Sounds like there was a lot of underhanded items that went on. But then again that is my feelings on this one. Somehow cheapens the Eagle rank just a little.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby WeeWillie » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:51 pm

Actually it cheapens Eagle a lot:

It encourages "merit badge mills."

It encourages parents to transfer their Scouts to merit badge mills.

It encourages more cheating.

It encourages units to create their own rules.

It creates Eagles who do not measure up to what Eagle represents to employers and college admission officials.

It discourages other Scouts from doing their best.

It causes bad attitudes for Eagles who do measure up. That would include my son.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby Bill Pitcher » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:34 pm

I think cballman has it right: A LARGE FOS donation was made. I had a case where my EBoR denied a Scout his Eagle because his Mother and Father ran 4 of his 6 work days. They went to the SE at the time (who is now with National ! ! ! !) and requested, with the threat of a law suit, another EBoR. The Scout passed! Go figure.
Last edited by Bill Pitcher on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby evmori » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:52 am

Bill Pitcher wrote:I think cballman has it right: A LARGE FOS donation was made. I had a case where my EBoR denied a Scout his Eagle because his Mother and Father ran 4 of his 6 work days. They went to the DE at the time (who is now with National ! ! ! !) and requested, with the threat of a law suit, another EBoR. The Scout passed! Go figure.


This is so wrong in so many ways. What does it teach kids? You can buy whatever you want? Sad.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby FrankJ » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:21 am

I think we are assuming a lot of facts not in evidence. Could be as simple as scout met the minimum requirements. Troop did not like it, Family appealed to higher authority. Speculation when you do not & will not get the whole story is close to rumor mongering. Just saying.
Frank J.
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Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby cballman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:40 am

Frank you are right. We as people speculate on what facts are given. Even if the whole story is not given. We as people do not like to give both sides in any story because then others will say that we are wrong. And as people we hate to be wrong. I would love to hear both sides of the story on this one. But we will not because neither party will complety tell both sides. I for one have never heard of cutting out a name but I know there are other ways of stopping something properly. So yes my answer was just speculation but I have seen it happen.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby FrankJ » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:47 am

I have to admit that I am guilty of speculation as well. :oops: So please do not take my comments as me thinking that I hold the moral high ground. I am just one the chickens. :)
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby cballman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:05 am

Frank we are all guilty because when people post here they dont give to much for us to think about. It would be better it they did but they think if we only hear a portion then we will side with them. So untill we get both FULL sides thenwe will keep right on speculating. I dont think that anyone is taking a high moral stance. I think that we will take the stance that we believe in. Whether it is right or wrong depends upon our own training and moral ethics. I also do believe in a good discussion over things helps us really see where our own shortcomings are and will help us in the future. So in closing I really do appreciate each and everyones opinion in all matters. So to all that have posted THANK YOU and I hope for everyoneto continue posting on other topics as well.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby evmori » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:57 am

We do tend to speculate in these and other forum but we speculate based on the information we have. And based on the info we have in this case, I would say we are not too far from the truth. The old saying "Money talks" usually holds true.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby FrankJ » Sun May 16, 2010 8:02 pm

In the May 10, 2010 Ask Andy column,there is a story (from the parents perspective) that is so similar to this one, I wonder. http://netcommish.com/AskAndy210.asp The story is at the bottom of the page.

Parent wants the troop to give an EBOR for the scout.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby wagionvigil » Sun May 16, 2010 8:38 pm

I think if I was Andy I would have told the parents to celebrate and then petition the council to remove those two leaders Threaten legal action against them what ever.
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Re: Just when you thought you had heard everything

Postby evmori » Mon May 17, 2010 8:34 am

I tend to stay away from Ask Andy since Andy has been known to give incorrect advise.
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