CC/MC Refused to Approve My ESLSP Proposal....

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CC/MC Refused to Approve My ESLSP Proposal....

Postby Jack459 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:52 pm

Recently a Unit Committee Member denied my proposed eagle scout project after holding my Eagle book for 20 days. I had already had the signatures of the benefiting organization ( a local elementary school ) as well as my scoutmaster. The Committee member said that he "didn't see enough hours there" in reference to my proposed project. Not only this but he said he saw no way of adding anything to the project to make it an "Eagle Level" project. My project included the construction of 15 signs designating a nature trail, the planting of berry bushes, the redoing of a garden(weeding, tilling, planting) and the construction of a number of bird houses. The principal of the school as well some of the teachers are looking forward and were very excited about the project.

How should i go about convincing this committee member that this project is of Eagle quality. I could see adding the construction of a bench or two into the project. Or is there another route I can take? Can I avoid getting his signature or is there a different signature i can get? I would really like to start this project soon.
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby mt_goodrich » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:02 pm

Is it just one committee member making this decision rather than the entire troop committee approving this?
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:35 pm

There are NO HOUR REQUIREMNTS ALLOWED BY NATIONAL! !AND THE LOCAL UNIT OR DISTRICT OR COUNCIL CANNOT ADD TO THE NATIONAL REQUIREMENTS
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby Jack459 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:46 pm

mt_goodrich wrote:Is it just one committee member making this decision rather than the entire troop committee approving this?


I am not sure. I went to his house for a meeting (just me him and a parent) and was shocked by some of the responses. Firstly it took him close to three weeks to respond to me (20 days to be exact) even after leaving him multiple messages. I have put a lot of planning into this and he suggested I seek completely new project. I would be very strained for time if I had to plan another project rather then modify my current one. I knew about the NO hours required reference in the Limitations section of the Official Eagle Book but I didn't want to get on this guys bad side by bringing it up. This is how the troop always has done it apparently. Long time to be doing it wrong right? I am thinking about writing a letter to the district advancment chair.
Last edited by Jack459 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:49 pm

DO IT
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby Mrw » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:11 pm

The district advancement chair needs to approve the project also, go ahead and give them a call for an appointment.

It sounds to me that you have quite a bit of work cut out for yourself and your work crew already and I fail to see how it is not Eagle quality in scope based on your description here.

I would also let the Scoutmaster know that the Committee person required to sign off on the project has turned you down and what they said about why. If the SM already signed it, he should also give you back-up here.
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby Jack459 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:22 pm

I already left a message with my Scoutmaster (not home at the moment). I can go to see the District Advancement Chair for approval without the approval of my unit committee member first? IF so then I am going to give my district advancement chairman a call and set up a meeting.
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby evmori » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:08 am

THERE ARE NO MINIMUM HOURS REQUIRED FOR AN EAGLE PROJECT

Go ahead & contact the DAC. From what you posted, it sounds like a great project!
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:01 am

Jack459: How about going around this committee person and go directly to the Committee Chairman? You do need those 3 signatures before you go to the advancement committee person who gives the final approval. But talking with the AC Chairman is a GREAT idea. It may get a phone call to this committee person, going!
Good luck and keep us posted. Sounds like a GREAT project to me, and I have been one of our council's AC Eagle Advisors for almost 20 years!
Eagle '63, ASM, Council Advancement Comm.(Eagle advisor),OA VIGIL member,NESA, council training staff,
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:14 am

The only thiong that is going to stop this stuff is that National and Local councils get some guts and remove leaders that do this. Even if the troop has to have its charter pulled. I can see some of these people saying what they gonna do fire me? We will do this way or there will no be a troop. well so be it.Some of the best troops on paper are actually the worse. We have one here that when ever you see them they are in Full Filed Uniform Spit and Polish. But They make up rules as they go. They never take part in anything they do not run. They openly could care less about rules at camp or at other functions. They tap out a ton of OA members each year but they never ever seal their membership or pay their dues after the first year but when you see a picture of 8 New Eagles they are all in their Spit and Polish Field Uniform and OA Ordeal Sash. Can you tell I really dislike this troop? I blame council for allowing them to get away with this stuff. No one ever gets involved and says hey you are wrong you cannot ever do that again then back it up.
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby evmori » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:22 am

Good points wagon but I think the place to start is at the district level. There are people on the district advancement committees that pull this kinda crap all the time! The one that chaps my shorts is the required letters of recommendation!
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:27 am

There again Council and National need to do the deed and shut them down.
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby Jack459 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:42 am

This man is actually the Committee Chariman for our troop. The rest of the committee as well as him are all traditionalists. They made up their own set of rules years ago and have been doing it like this forever. Im worried that since this has been going on so long that the District Advancement chair is so used to 600+ hour projects and will look at mine like its a simple service project when it is not. I am awaiting my scoutmaster to return my call and at that point I am going to ask if we could have a group meeting with the DAC. I already have a letter going to Council Headquarters describing the situation.
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby mt_goodrich » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:46 am

600 hours!!??!!??!!?? Are you kidding me?

As mentioned before, there are NO HOUR REQUIREMENTS.

Make sure you document EVERYTHING. Make notes of all of your meetings in which your project has been discussed. Make out a time line of everything that has happened since you have started working on your project (meeting with school officials, your Scoutmaster, the Committee, etc.....everything).

If and when you have to present your case, you'll have everything that is needed.

I am sorry this is happening. As Wagionvigil has stated, along with others, new rules cannot be made up by individual troops/committees.
Mike
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Re: Unit Committee Member Signature

Postby evmori » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:41 am

600+ hours!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a job not a project! And that is ridiculous!
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Re: CC/MC Refused to Approve My ESLSP Proposal....

Postby RWSmith » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:50 pm

Jack459,

I want you to take a look at Appealing a Decision. Print it out, if you need to. (You may also want to reference Eagle Scout Rank and Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project). Talk to your parents and your SM and get them on board with you. Then, contact your CC and let him know that, if he does not approve your project immediately, you're going to Appeal. Don't give him 20 days, either. Give him 24 hours. If he doesn't sign, APPEAL IMMEDIATELY! (Don't hesitate to ask for an extension, too... if you think you're going to need it.)

Now, don't go off half-cocked. Your primary goal here is to educate your SM/CC (and other Troop committee members) and, hopefully, get them to voluntarily change their ways... to the correct way, from today forward.

If that fails, then your secondary goal is to get the correct Scouters (District/Council Advancement Committee and your Commissioners) to step in and force the Unit's leaders and committee to do advancement the right way.

And if that fails, the third option should be enforced, as a last resort... leader removal. Good leaders who are doing advancement wrong need to be turned, not burned. But, if that's what it takes, well, so be it.

If you (and your parents/SM) don't stand up to this, then it will simply continue. But, there are proper channels... Use the Appeal Process... That's why it exists... for situations such as yours.
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Re: CC/MC Refused to Approve My ESLSP Proposal....

Postby Jack459 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:57 pm

Thank You very much RWSmith. The first thing I did after my project was denied was a google search to find some sort of appeal process. I guess my google skills are limited because after 30 minutes I turned up nothing and came here. I think this is going to be the fastest and most effective way to get my project going. Once again thank you.
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Re: CC/MC Refused to Approve My ESLSP Proposal....

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:43 pm

Jack tell us what council you are from. There may be someone here that can help you It should be listed in your profile under location anyway
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Re: CC/MC Refused to Approve My ESLSP Proposal....

Postby Jack459 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:54 pm

I am located in the Theodore Roosevelt Council in Nassau County New York. ( Long Island )
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Re: CC/MC Refused to Approve My ESLSP Proposal....

Postby biglou » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:02 pm

Jack, I have read your thread and will give you these pieces of advice. Appeal the project approval and listen to the other folks that have posted here. They will not lead you astray. They have helped me with my problems with my Troop Committee (and I am the Scoutmaster). From what you have described, I would approve this project as well as everyone else here would. Good Luck to you on your project and I cannot wait to see the post that you made Eagle Scout!
Big Lou

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