Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:56 am

Hopefully when you friend Bob starts cracking down he actually read the rules. The The Advancement Policies & Procedures BSA states:

Although the project idea must be
before work is begun, the board of review
determine the manner in which the project carried
out. Questions that must be addressed
• Did the candidate demonstrate
leadership of others?
• Did he indeed direct the project
rather than do all of the work
himself?
• Was the project of real value
the religious institution, school,
community group?
• Who from the group benefiting
from the project may be contacted
to verify the value of the project?
• Did the project follow the approved
plan or were modifications needed
to bring it to its completion?


So if the EBOR follow "the rules", they are asking these questions and acting on them.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:46 am

That would be the hope wagon.

the board of review
determine the manner in which the project carried
out.

So if the EBOR follow "the rules", they are asking these questions and acting on them.


So if they are following the rules the EBOR can deny the Scout the rank of Eagle if the project was not carried out as it was approved.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:51 am

If it was not carried out as planned it should never get to the EBOR. There is a DIstrict person that approves and reviews.

Once that project book is signed off by all concerned as per the book. It is over. They have said it is completed to their satisfaction. If an EBOR over rides those signatures they will be over ruled very quickly so save yourself the bother.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:22 am

The council reviews the eagle application prior to the EBOR. This is essentially a clerk function to insure all the paper work is there & the dates are correct. There is no council sign off for the completed eagle workbook.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:26 am

Our council as do other councils have a district Eagle Chairman that reviews and approves. He actually sets up the EBOR and the project is a non issue. Once it is all signed off on it is over. This persn is also the person that reviews from the beginning. All projects in the district go through them.

There are several approvals required for your project along the way. The first is the approval from your Scoutmaster or project advisor that your idea will qualify as a valid project. You need this before spending much time writing up the detail plan. After your advisor has helped you get the written plan in order and ready to submit, you will then need several signatures in the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook. A responsible representative from the organization you are doing the project for is the first signature required. It is also a good idea to get a letter from the organization if possible. Next, your Scoutmaster or project advisor signs, followed by a member of the Troop Committee. The project is now ready to turn in to the District or Council Advancement Committee for approval to proceed. Note: you should keep a Xerox copy of the project, exactly as turned in to the District, in case it is lost during the approval cycle.

It is very important that you do not DO any of the project, except planning, until the District or Council Committee has signed it. Once they have approved the project plan, it will be returned to you by your Scoutmaster or project advisor. THEN you can begin to DO the project!

Now when finished This person from district inspects the project
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby lifescoutforlife » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:48 am

wagionvigil wrote:Our council as do other councils have a district Eagle Chairman that reviews and approves. He actually sets up the EBOR and the project is a non issue. Once it is all signed off on it is over. This persn is also the person that reviews from the beginning. All projects in the district go through them.

There are several approvals required for your project along the way. The first is the approval from your Scoutmaster or project advisor that your idea will qualify as a valid project. You need this before spending much time writing up the detail plan. After your advisor has helped you get the written plan in order and ready to submit, you will then need several signatures in the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook. A responsible representative from the organization you are doing the project for is the first signature required. It is also a good idea to get a letter from the organization if possible. Next, your Scoutmaster or project advisor signs, followed by a member of the Troop Committee. The project is now ready to turn in to the District or Council Advancement Committee for approval to proceed. Note: you should keep a Xerox copy of the project, exactly as turned in to the District, in case it is lost during the approval cycle.

It is very important that you do not DO any of the project, except planning, until the District or Council Committee has signed it. Once they have approved the project plan, it will be returned to you by your Scoutmaster or project advisor. THEN you can begin to DO the project!

Now when finished This person from district inspects the project


Ours is the same way.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:50 am

EBoR's in my district are done by the district,
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:06 am

Now when finished This person from district inspects the project
If there is a national requirement that it be done that way I do not know about it.

That might be how it works in your district. In our council, the project plan is approved on the district level. That is normally the last time any one from district sees it before the EBOR. The Eagle application along with the completed eagle workbook is turned into council to be processed & fact checked before the EBOR. It is then turned over to either the SM or a CM & the EBOR is scheduled with the district advancement committee.

National policy gives council a bit of latitude on how this process works.
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Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:50 am

FrankJ wrote:
Now when finished This person from district inspects the project
If there is a national requirement that it be done that way I do not know about it.

That might be how it works in your district. In our council, the project plan is approved on the district level. That is normally the last time any one from district sees it before the EBOR. The Eagle application along with the completed eagle workbook is turned into council to be processed & fact checked before the EBOR. It is then turned over to either the SM or a CM & the EBOR is scheduled with the district advancement committee.

National policy gives council a bit of latitude on how this process works.


If possible, a person from the DAC will inspect the project after it is complete. This isn't always possible.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby VenturingL » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:51 pm

As to not completing project as it was originally approved - there is a section of the workbook for listing and explaining exactly this. Example - my son planned to use post hole diggers. He borrowed 2; listed who he was getting them from in the original plan. He quickly discovered thick clay approximately 2" down & a power auger was rented for the day (there were 18 holes to be dug 2' deep). Was this in the original plan? No. Did he list it in final report - of course! Did he & others there learn something - Yes! - check the soil you will be digging earlier - in the planning phase. (ASM donated rental fee, this was included in final cost section)
I suppose the concern would be the degree to which the project veered off-course.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby Cowboy » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:03 am

Every project should have changes. If it does not, you know that the project was not Eagle worthy OR not planned and conducted by the Scout. I was a contractor for 10 years, every project no matter how small ended up with changes. Could have been that I needed longer or shorter screws, electric cable buried where it did not belong, etc. One of the changes on my sons ESLP was that he painted a door that was not originally planned. Why? Once the rest of the project got done he realized that a faded peeling door drew the eye from the project. Painting the door addded all of 20 minutes labor, paint was left from another area, but it made the project look complete. Personally I am suspicious of any project that does not require changes.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:24 am

IN My Opinion that when folks start nit pickin a project apart at an EBOR they are just looking for a reason to deny a kid advancement to Eagle. If the Project is signed off as completed as it should be it is over,done get over it.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby FrankJ » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:30 pm

Actually I think a BOR should not deny advancement over nit picking details. The original question was rather or not the scout showed leadership in conducting the project, which if you are following "the rules" as in writing from national, is clearly part of the EBOR scope and is not a detail.

YMMV
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:05 am

Every project should have changes. If it does not, you know that the project was not Eagle worthy OR not planned and conducted by the Scout.


Huh? While I would agree that every project does have changes that in no way means they are a must! I totally disagree with this statement!
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:04 am

Back from Summer Camp.

You guys have been busy with this one.

Here's some other info from the particular project as I talked through some of the questions he might receive regarding the Leadership execution of his project:

The Project Plan was signed off by our District (after multiple iterations) as it met all the elements needed on the checklist.

Project was to build 15 picnic tables for a local Township - Sponsor is scout's uncle

Project materials were listed in Workbook as donations from Lowes ($1250) - Actual materials donated by a company that "doesn't want to be identified" according to scout - OBTW...Another uncle owns construction company. The new ESLPW now has a specific section to list donations. I know that families can contribute to the scouts EP but it it discouraged to have the family "buy" the EP around here anyway as it doesn't teach anything. I'm sure that Anonymous - $1250 would raise questions.

Workforce make up was 3 scouts (him and 2 brothers) and 16 adults (mostly relatives). I told him that since this was an unusual workforce make up and most of the EP I've seen were just the opposite make up, I thought he would get questions on his technique of leading adults and motivating folks to work long hours.

Project plan says all 15 tables were to be done in one day - scout advised this was way too much unless he got lots of people involved. Scout and family went night before to cut out table pieces.

2nd Workday for most of the family members was 12.5 hours. Not hard to "lead" family members. I asked him if he thought he underestimated the workforce needed if folks had to work 12.5 hours - not much response.

SM and CC not informed of date - not "required" but nice to know especially if there was a problem
15 tables were built and project "completed" and signed by sponsor. Tour Permit signed by Mother (who is CM) 10 days prior to project. Second Leader on TP is one of our 19 y.o. ASMs.

Start date of project not mentioned at Monday's Troop meeting before the project which could have helped him to get extra workers. Some scouts had asked him before when his project was so they could come help and get some service hours for rank and school. - "not sure" was his response.

So...A lot of under the radar action occurred. I'm not sure why the scout felt this was the proper Leadership Course of Action to take. As far as procedurally, the Project Plan was approved by the 4 who needed to sign off on it, the physical Project was completed.

The question for the EBOR to figure out is the Leadership execution piece of this. The original post was to ask all, what kind of appropriate questions would you ask if you were on the EBOR?

Glad to be back!
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby FrankJ » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:56 am

Actually I can think of a lot of reasons for for a donor to want to be "Anonymous". Since the project is not supposed to be about fund raising & the only thing BSA really says about it is to be clear that the beneficiary is the non-profit & not the BSA. I do not see much reason to spend a lot of time on this. A direct question about was it a relative without identifying the source should be answered though.

The questions I would ask would be centered on examples on how he should leadership, maybe to style he used, what problems he encountered. Questions about why & how he chose the work force would be good as well. Maybe he felt he would not have gotten support from the troop. Maybe he felt a troop adult would try to run the project. (or not as the case may be. I am not speculating one way or the other.) Follow up questions would flow from the answers.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:41 am

FrankJ wrote:Actually I can think of a lot of reasons for for a donor to want to be "Anonymous". Since the project is not supposed to be about fund raising & the only thing BSA really says about it is to be clear that the beneficiary is the non-profit & not the BSA. I do not see much reason to spend a lot of time on this. A direct question about was it a relative without identifying the source should be answered though.

The questions I would ask would be centered on examples on how he should leadership, maybe to style he used, what problems he encountered. Questions about why & how he chose the work force would be good as well. Maybe he felt he would not have gotten support from the troop. Maybe he felt a troop adult would try to run the project. (or not as the case may be. I am not speculating one way or the other.) Follow up questions would flow from the answers.




Thanks.

The question to me is why did you put that donations were coming from Lowes when you probably already knew that they were coming from "anonymous". I think you're lucky to get a $25 gift card from Lowes or HD right now.

Some troop members specifically asked about helping.

The parents were the more likely candidates to run the project than a troop adult.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:47 am

smtroop168 wrote:
FrankJ wrote:Actually I can think of a lot of reasons for for a donor to want to be "Anonymous". Since the project is not supposed to be about fund raising & the only thing BSA really says about it is to be clear that the beneficiary is the non-profit & not the BSA. I do not see much reason to spend a lot of time on this. A direct question about was it a relative without identifying the source should be answered though.

The questions I would ask would be centered on examples on how he should leadership, maybe to style he used, what problems he encountered. Questions about why & how he chose the work force would be good as well. Maybe he felt he would not have gotten support from the troop. Maybe he felt a troop adult would try to run the project. (or not as the case may be. I am not speculating one way or the other.) Follow up questions would flow from the answers.




Thanks.

The question to me is why did you put that donations were coming from Lowes when you probably already knew that they were coming from "anonymous". I think you're lucky to get a $25 gift card from Lowes or HD right now.

Some troop members specifically asked about helping.

The parents were the more likely candidates to run the project than a troop adult.


I don't think the donor wanting to be anonymous should even come into play.

As far as everything else, I would focus on how he lead this group of what appears to be relatives. I get a feeling this could be a very interesting BOR!!!!
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby FrankJ » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:50 am

As you realize, my theoretical answers to the questions were not meant to imply that is the case, just that you do not know the answers until the questions were asked.

Around here Lowes & HD are such large targets that they do not contribute large sums to any one eagle project. The individual stores seem to do what they can. Maybe the scout did not find that out until after the project was started & had to find other sources. If the contributor was "anonymous" just to hide that he was a relative, to me, would be a bigger issue than the project being financed by a relative. By itself this does not come close to a reason to deny advancement.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby alex gregory » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:19 pm

wagionvigil wrote:IN My Opinion that when folks start nit pickin a project apart at an EBOR they are just looking for a reason to deny a kid advancement to Eagle. If the Project is signed off as completed as it should be it is over,done get over it.


Exactly!

The horse has left the barn.
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