Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

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Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 20, 2009 3:05 pm

Oh wise forum members...I know there are no restrictions on the ESP workforce make up. E.G. Doesn't have to be scouts, can be adults, friends, schoolmates, relatives.

What about an EP workforce is 3 scouts (eagle candidate and 2 younger brothers) and 16 adults (all but a couple related) where the project is to build/stain picnic tables. Some of the adults are professional construction folks. Troop was not asked to participate or informed of the date.

What kind of questions would you ask if you were on the EBOR?
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 20, 2009 3:16 pm

The Boy may uise anyone he may decide to use. It does not say the Troop must do the work :D
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 20, 2009 3:48 pm

I know that he can use whoever he wants, but my question is how would you judge project leadership of the scout when the workforce is all adults and mostly relatives.

Also just strange that he would not want to include his troop, some of which specifically asked him about helping.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby FrankJ » Wed May 20, 2009 4:06 pm

You ask him the same questions you would ask any eagle candidate. In my district, in the work force has more experience than the scout (ie mostly adults), that would raise a flag. The scout should be able to clearly describe how he showed leadership. The EBOR has the final decision on how the project was carried out.

Also the SM should not sign of on the project if he does not think the scout actually carried out the project.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby Mrw » Wed May 20, 2009 4:07 pm

I certainly would ask why he did not include the troop in the project. And probably follow it up with an open-ended question about does he think boys at a lower rank would have learned leadership or other skills from seeing him carry out his project.

It may have been that he had so many offers of skilled help that he thought having the younger boys would be too many hands and they would just get in the way. I would ask about how the adults took direction from him during the project work.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 20, 2009 6:10 pm

FrankJ wrote:You ask him the same questions you would ask any eagle candidate. In my district, in the work force has more experience than the scout (ie mostly adults), that would raise a flag. The scout should be able to clearly describe how he showed leadership. The EBOR has the final decision on how the project was carried out.

Also the SM should not sign of on the project if he does not think the scout actually carried out the project.


I agree....Tough not to sign off when he has a picture of himself standing in front of 15 tables. I wasn't there to observe and neither was the CC. Mom who is a CM got the TP on her own. Everything about the execution (date/time) seemed to be under the radar.

I'll let Wagion guess who this is.

Mrw wrote:I certainly would ask why he did not include the troop in the project. And probably follow it up with an open-ended question about does he think boys at a lower rank would have learned leadership or other skills from seeing him carry out his project.

It may have been that he had so many offers of skilled help that he thought having the younger boys would be too many hands and they would just get in the way. I would ask about how the adults took direction from him during the project work.


Thanks. These are good. He had some of his workforce putting in 12.5 hour days so a few extra hands probably would have been helpful.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 20, 2009 6:18 pm

Is his merit badge sash correct? :lol:
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby Cowboy » Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Very tough one to call, but the EBOR has the responsibility to make sure that the Scout has shown leadership. If there was no one there to "verify" it, how can they know that? My son has been making use of "professionals" and friends more than scouts. There have been scouts and parents there though. His problem has been that there was Spring Camporee, and an OA Service weekend. Hard to get the troop there. Just having a picture of a Scout standing by 15 tables does not show anything other than that he can stand by tables.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Thu May 21, 2009 8:19 am

wagionvigil wrote:Is his merit badge sash correct? :lol:


Absolutely.

Cowboy wrote:Very tough one to call, but the EBOR has the responsibility to make sure that the Scout has shown leadership. If there was no one there to "verify" it, how can they know that? My son has been making use of "professionals" and friends more than scouts. There have been scouts and parents there though. His problem has been that there was Spring Camporee, and an OA Service weekend. Hard to get the troop there. Just having a picture of a Scout standing by 15 tables does not show anything other than that he can stand by tables.


Nothing wrong with using other than scouts. I was just curious what folks on the forum thought about his workforce make up of all adults, all but 2 related and only 2 scouts (younger brothers). EBOR members usually aren't at the EP so they have to make their judgment on the write up and the answer to their questions.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Thu May 21, 2009 9:34 am

If I was sitting on his EBOR I would ask why he chose the people he chose. It would depend on his answer as to where the questions would go from there.

I see nothing wrong with not having the Scouts in his unit helping out. There is no requirement that they help.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby Bill Pitcher » Tue May 26, 2009 3:22 pm

The Council Eagle Rep (or AC) that signed his proposal should have warned him about an "adult heavy" project. When I look at a proposal and the man-power estimates, I ask if the helpers are scouts, friends, adults, etc. and if there is too many adults, I want to know why. I also request a parent be present at out(sp) (correction: our) meeting so that EVERYONE understands that the Scout is the "foreman" on this job . . . not Dad or Mom or Uncle Joe the carpenter. As mentioned above, ask why so many adults and the questions will flow off of his answer. But yeah, the work party doesn't have to be scouts . . . he has to lead whoever shows up. We have a LDS troop in our council, and when a boy does his Eagle Project, half of the church seems to show up! But, he leads. I also ask for project dates so that I can "drop by" and see what is going on and who is in charge. Usually solves ANY problem with leadership questions.
Last edited by RWSmith on Tue May 26, 2009 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: out(sp) -> our... corrected spelling involving meaning of the poster's text
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Tue May 26, 2009 10:18 pm

Bill Pitcher wrote:The Council Eagle Rep (or AC) that signed his proposal should have warned him about an "adult heavy" project. When I look at a proposal and the man-power estimates, I ask if the helpers are scouts, friends, adults, etc. and if there is too many adults, I want to know why. I also request a parent be present at out(sp) (correction: our) meeting so that EVERYONE understands that the Scout is the "foreman" on this job . . . not Dad or Mom or Uncle Joe the carpenter. As mentioned above, ask why so many adults and the questions will flow off of his answer. But yeah, the work party doesn't have to be scouts . . . he has to lead whoever shows up. We have a LDS troop in our council, and when a boy does his Eagle Project, half of the church seems to show up! But, he leads. I also ask for project dates so that I can "drop by" and see what is going on and who is in charge. Usually solves ANY problem with leadership questions.


Bill...His approved plan just said he was going to get his workers from friends and family and have 2 deep adult leadership. No reference to the large percent of adults until I saw the tour permit that his Mom got with 3 scouts and 16 adults. It seems to me and our CC that he had no intention of letting the troop or either one of us know when he was going to do the work. We had a meeting 30 March, TP dated 1 April, troop meeting 6 april and project 10-11 april so he had opportunities in which he could have let the troop know. Plus we have a Mass email list that he uses as the SPL.

It'll be interesting to see how he answers the Leadership questions that I'm sure will come from the District rep on his EBOR.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Wed May 27, 2009 8:55 am

Adult heavy project?

It really makes no difference who is working on his project as long as the Scout is the one leading and directing it.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed May 27, 2009 10:02 am

True, but we all know that if there are too many adults, they take over. But you're right: the workforce can be anybody. I find that if the Scout selects most of his crew from his troop and his friends, he will have much more success as a leader. However, some Scouts have a great rapport with adults and can handle it. YOU NEVER KNOW!
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 27, 2009 10:07 am

evmori wrote:Adult heavy project?

It really makes no difference who is working on his project as long as the Scout is the one leading and directing it.


That's the crux of the issue. How did the scout lead his two younger brothers and the 16 adult relatives, some of who are professional construction folks?
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby Quailman » Wed May 27, 2009 10:53 am

It doesn't have to be adult-heavy for an adult to take over. I overheard a scout telling another that he had helped out on an Eagle project the day before. His mom had been contacted to enlist his help, and he wasn't even sure whose project it was. He went thinking it was going to be Scout A's project, but it was Scout B's mother who was telling everyone what to do, so he figured it was Scout B's.

If they've helped out on Eagle projects in the past, adults are likely to await directions from the Eagle candidate, as they should.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby evmori » Thu May 28, 2009 8:23 am

smtroop168 wrote:
evmori wrote:Adult heavy project?

It really makes no difference who is working on his project as long as the Scout is the one leading and directing it.


That's the crux of the issue. How did the scout lead his two younger brothers and the 16 adult relatives, some of who are professional construction folks?


That is a question for the EBOR to ask.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby lifescoutforlife » Thu May 28, 2009 10:00 am

I like it when a boy involves his troop,friends and the people that the project is going to benefit.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby WeeWillie » Fri May 29, 2009 12:35 am

The SM signed off that the project is approved and that the project is completed. That includes manpower requirements. If I saw a project with 3 scouts and 16 adults I would be concerned . I would ask some very pointed questions. I would also speak with the parents/guardians and make it clear it is the Scout's project, not theirs. I would also inform the Scout and parents that either myself or an ASM would be on site as an observer to insure the project was Scout lead. That isn't adding to the requirement, that is insuring the requirement was met. Forewarned is forearmed.

Not a problem in T480 and we have great Scout lead projects.
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Re: Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workforce Makeup

Postby smtroop168 » Fri May 29, 2009 1:06 pm

WeeWillie wrote:The SM signed off that the project is approved and that the project is completed. That includes manpower requirements. If I saw a project with 3 scouts and 16 adults I would be concerned . I would ask some very pointed questions. I would also speak with the parents/guardians and make it clear it is the Scout's project, not theirs. I would also inform the Scout and parents that either myself or an ASM would be on site as an observer to insure the project was Scout lead. That isn't adding to the requirement, that is insuring the requirement was met. Forewarned is forearmed.

Not a problem in T480 and we have great Scout lead projects.


Wee...if you look at my earlier posts you'll see that the "adult heavy" workforce makeup was not in the project write up. It just says friends and family but the TP shows the 3 and 16.

The ESLP book signatures just say "planned, developed and carried out'....Project Approval comes at the BOR.

This is the only case I have ever personally seen like this and it's one of mine.

I'll leave it up to the EBOR to sort it out.
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