Last minute Eagles

Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

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Last minute Eagles

Postby Mrw » Wed May 06, 2009 9:22 am

So we have a boy who will be turning 18 on May 18th. He has a project to get done, all the paperwork to do and the 50 miler to ride for the Cycling badge.

I wish him well, but it sure is scary to see it that close to the deadline!
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby ThunderingWind » Wed May 06, 2009 9:25 am

Does he even have a project approved?
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby lifescoutforlife » Wed May 06, 2009 11:46 am

We just had a boy finish his Eagle project 2 weeks ago and E Science MB on Monday night and turned everything into the office yesterday and he turns 18 tomorrow. I'm very proud of him finishing everything because his father passed a couple years ago and he still had the drive to get it all done. :wink:
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby alex gregory » Wed May 06, 2009 11:48 am

Excepting project approval etc., I think all his paperwork can get done after he turns 18.

50-mile bike ride should be fairly easy. Getting the project completed will require a little heroic effort, but it can get done. Make sure the Advancement Chair checks his MB records etc. to verify no problems while there is still time to fix the issues.

I've seen a few guys earn their Eagle within 30 days of turning 18. Usually the scout has been a Life for years, and had the same few missing requirments for months. It is crazy.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 06, 2009 12:08 pm

alex gregory wrote:Excepting project approval etc., I think all his paperwork can get done after he turns 18.



The only thing that can be done after he turns 18 is the Eagle BOR.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed May 06, 2009 3:12 pm

I agree with smtroop168. ALL REQUIREMENTS (which means all MB's and the project report . . . 2 of the 6 requirements) MUST BE COMPLETED BY THE TIME THE SCOUT TURNS 18. Only the EBoR can be held within 3 months of his 18th birthday. I hear this all of the time, councils letting the scout take longer to do the paperwork. It's only allowed if an extension is granted by National BSA.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby scoutaholic » Wed May 06, 2009 3:20 pm

Bill Pitcher wrote:I agree with smtroop168. ALL REQUIREMENTS (which means all MB's and the project report . . . 2 of the 6 requirements) MUST BE COMPLETED BY THE TIME THE SCOUT TURNS 18. Only the EBoR can be held within 3 months of his 18th birthday. I hear this all of the time, councils letting the scout take longer to do the paperwork. It's only allowed if an extension is granted by National BSA.


Our council has been allowing extra time for the paperwork as long as I have been aware of the policy.

As long as the requirements are completed (MBs, Project, POR, SMConf, etc.) the paperwork doesn't have to be done prior to the b-day. They can take a few weeks to get the paperwork in order, and the BOR can be as much as 3 months after the b-day.

I had one who sat on his paperwork for months. His BOR questioned the delay and would not have passed without good reasons. There had to be extra paperwork when it was sent to National.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby PaulSWolf » Wed May 06, 2009 4:23 pm

smtroop168 wrote:
alex gregory wrote:Excepting project approval etc., I think all his paperwork can get done after he turns 18.

The only thing that can be done after he turns 18 is the Eagle BOR.

The paperwork CAN be done after the 18th Birthday.

Here's what I wrote on http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank7app.asp

NOTE: The Application Form and the Service Project Workbook do NOT have to be completed and/or signed prior to the candidate's 18th birthday, only the REQUIREMENTS need to be done. The top of the application form contains the following statement:

"This application is to be completed after you have completed all requirements for the Eagle Scout rank....When you have completed this application, sign it and submit it to your unit leader"

By the Scout's signature, it says:

"On my honor as a Scout/Venturer, all statements on this application are true and correct. All requirements were completed prior to my 18th birthday."

In "The 12 Steps from Life to Eagle" on the last page of the workbook, it says:

"3. It is imperative that all requirements for the Eagle Scout rank be completed prior to the candidate's 18th birthday. When all requirements except the board of review for the rank of Eagle, including the leadership service project, have been completed, the enclosed Eagle Scout Rank Application must be completed and sent to the council service center promptly."

Everything says REQUIREMENTS must be completed before the deadline, and the application be completed and submitted AFTER the requirements are complete.

The unit leader DOES have to sign and date the application, and the project workbook, but that date does NOT have to be before the deadline, so long as all the dates listing when the requirements were completed is listed. The date that the Unit Leader's Conference was held is a separate entry from the leader's signature date. The signature dates in the workbook are separate from the entry for the date the project was completed.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 06, 2009 4:49 pm

Paul I see what you're saying and the application would have to be after he turns 18 if he's having his SMC the evening before. Although, when the scout comes for an Eagle SMC, he should bring his Eagle Application with reference names and all his "paperwork" like project book which should be signed by the sponsor, MB stuff, Statement of Ambitions, List of Leadership Positions etc.

Doing this all before 18, keeps the OMG of not being able to find some "paperwork" to a minimum. Signature of the CC and Council Verification would be after 18.

And just to stir the pot, the ESLP is not "complete" until the EBOR says so.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby Scouter&mom » Wed May 06, 2009 5:46 pm

The project is completed when the SM and the benefiting organization rep sign the book saying it is completed!.. These two and the Scout sign and date the project book as completed.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 06, 2009 5:55 pm

Scouter&mom wrote:The project is completed when the SM and the benefiting organization rep sign the book saying it is completed!.. These two and the Scout sign and date the project book as completed.



Sorry but you are incorrect:

Final Project Approvals
Only a couple of signatures are required on your final report, the most important of which is yours. If you are proud of your effort and pleased with the write-up, then sign it on the last page. You also need the signature of your Scoutmaster or unit project advisor. The representative of the institution benefiting from your project must also sign your workbook after you complete the work. While these are the only signatures required in order to submit it, the project's final approval will come during your Eagle Board of Review. This is the final judgment on whether your overall project (the plan, how it was carried out, and the final report) meets the BSA requirements. While your plan was approved in advance of beginning any work, how you worked that plan and your final write-up are evaluated atthe EBOR.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby PaulSWolf » Wed May 06, 2009 11:01 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Paul I see what you're saying and the application would have to be after he turns 18 if he's having his SMC the evening before. Although, when the scout comes for an Eagle SMC, he should bring his Eagle Application with reference names and all his "paperwork" like project book which should be signed by the sponsor, MB stuff, Statement of Ambitions, List of Leadership Positions etc.

Doing this all before 18, keeps the OMG of not being able to find some "paperwork" to a minimum. Signature of the CC and Council Verification would be after 18.

And just to stir the pot, the ESLP is not "complete" until the EBOR says so.
There's nothing that says the Scout must come "for an Eagle SMC, (with) his Eagle Application with reference names and all his "paperwork" like project book which should be signed by the sponsor, MB stuff, Statement of Ambitions, List of Leadership Positions etc. " SHOULD he - YES, if possible. MUST he - NO

As for the ESLP being " complete" only when the EBOR says so, while the final project approval comes at the EBOR, all the EBOR says is "Yes, it met the requirements", or "No, it didn't." Since the EBOR can be held after the 18th birthday, saying the project isn't "complete" until then would be a catch-22, since the project must be complete before the 18th birthday.

Even if the EBOR (after the 18th birthday) turns down the Scout or just the project, the Scout will usually be given an extension past his birthday by the National office to complete the project or satisfy other conditions imposed by the EBOR, on the grounds of "circumstances beyond the Scouts control."
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby smtroop168 » Thu May 07, 2009 7:58 am

PaulSWolf wrote:There's nothing that says the Scout must come "for an Eagle SMC, (with) his Eagle Application with reference names and all his "paperwork" like project book which should be signed by the sponsor, MB stuff, Statement of Ambitions, List of Leadership Positions etc. " SHOULD he - YES, if possible. MUST he - NO That's what I said...should not must. If the scout is being helped through the process, he has his paperwork filled out well before 18

As for the ESLP being " complete" only when the EBOR says so, while the final project approval comes at the EBOR, all the EBOR says is "Yes, it met the requirements", or "No, it didn't." Since the EBOR can be held after the 18th birthday, saying the project isn't "complete" until then would be a catch-22, since the project must be complete before the 18th birthday. I think that is what I was trying to say, although I guess not very well, that the EBOR has final approval not the Sponsor or SM. we had one recently where Dad and Mom did the project and the sponsor was happy, the SM (who was not in attendance) signed because the sponsor was happy and the EBOR did not "approve" the project

Even if the EBOR (after the 18th birthday) turns down the Scout or just the project, the Scout will usually be given an extension past his birthday by the National office to complete the project or satisfy other conditions imposed by the EBOR, on the grounds of "circumstances beyond the Scouts control." If the scout is turned down, the appeal process kicks in. I thought National gives extensions to complete the requirements if they can't be done before 18 not after and I thought "circumstances beyond the Scouts control" was not used for I did a poor job on my EP so give me more time but for medical emergencies like a kid here who was in a severe car wreck and hospitalized for months.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby alex gregory » Thu May 07, 2009 12:22 pm

A young man gets all the substantive requirements completed after a heroic push to finish within days of turning 18, and be denied his Eagle because of procedural forms?!?

For anyone who thinks that is really what scouting is all about I suggest that you take another look at the Scout laws, and pay close attention to trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous and kind.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby smtroop168 » Thu May 07, 2009 2:51 pm

alex gregory wrote:A young man gets all the substantive requirements completed after a heroic push to finish within days of turning 18, and be denied his Eagle because of procedural forms?!?

For anyone who thinks that is really what scouting is all about I suggest that you take another look at the Scout laws, and pay close attention to trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous and kind.


What are you talking about? Where do you draw your conclusion that anyone is denying anyone anything? If all the requirements are completed prior to 18, then the scout is good to go. Are there unsubstantive requirements?
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby Bill Pitcher » Fri May 08, 2009 6:20 am

To Scouter&Mom: The Eagle Board of Review has to decide if the candidate completed the project, AS PROPOSED, on time (before his 18th. birthday). The proposal is like a contract. Would you pay the contrator for a new roof on your house, and then he only does half of it? Signatures don't guarantee the job was done . . .I've seen it happen. I always view the "finished" project to see if it was done as proposed.

To Paul and Alex: If the Scout must complete all of the requirements by his 18th. birthday, I don't see how you can accept paperwork (other than the application), completed after he turns 18. Yes, he signs the application that the requirements were done on time, and that includes requirement 5. Requirement 5 says in bold type: . . . You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, No. 512-927. in meeting this requirement.. So how can he honestly sign the application that all requirements were done on time, if his report isn't done on time? It's one of the requirements. I have read your comments on usscouts.org which you have also quoted above, and they seem to be personal opinions, not the requirements. Bottom line, other than the application, ALL REQUIREMENTS MUST BE MET BY THE TIME THE BOY TURNS 18, and by #5's wording, that also means the project's final report.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby Cowboy » Sun May 10, 2009 7:30 am

As is evident in all of my posts: I am a big stickler for the rules. I feel that even the Eagle Rank has been dumbed down in our permissive society. The requirements and the workbook clearly state that the only thing that can be done after the Scouts 18th Birthday is the Board of Revue. Yes, it is disappointing when a boy is unable to reach Eagle because of his age, but, in most cases that boy crossed over when he was 10.5 or 11 and has had well over 6 years to complete the requirements. Do not dumb it down, stick to the requirements, no more, no less. That keeps everyone on the same feild. Everyone must complete the same minimum standards.
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby RWSmith » Sun May 10, 2009 3:20 pm

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular here--really. However...

Let's turn it down half-a-notch in order to keep the healthy debate (and learning process) first and foremost.

Thanks, to one and all... :mrgreen:
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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Mon May 11, 2009 1:20 am

Cowboy, I'd agree with that. #1's best friend just went Scout to Eagle in less than 2 years. With 3 days to spare before his 18th birthday. It's about whether they want it badly enough to prepare, not whether they're scrambling for something for college applications.


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Re: Last minute Eagles

Postby Bill Pitcher » Mon May 11, 2009 8:06 am

AMEN, Cowboy. I mean, what are we teaching these guys if we say there is a deadline of their 18th. birthday but we are going to forget about that for a few weeks? It's not the way the real world works. Eagle Scouts are special people who do special things. It's what everyone expects of them. The public "knows what they can do" and IMHO that includes meeting deadlines.
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