Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby Ursus Snorous Roarus » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:32 pm

mhjacobson wrote:Thank you. However, if the entirety of the thread was read, one could only come up with the interpretation that all were supporting the scout. The only area were there were some comments made were in the direction of the Eagle Mentor.

Yes, thank you, I did read the entire thread. Apparently I came up with something you didn't. Not sure if any of the remaining was directed at me, but thanks, didn't suggest any of that.
Ursus Snorous Roarus
Star
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:23 pm
Location: Montana Council

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby fritz1255 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:18 am

I have to agree with Ursus on this - most of the "help" I got on this issue consisted of heaping criticism on the Scout and the Troop leadership. That is certainly what I got out of reading the posts.

We were able to conclude the issue successfully - the organization signed off (after some negotiations), and the Scout recently had his Eagle COH. We will not be doing any more projects with this organization (at least while I am Committe Chair). In addition to expanding the requirements, they expressed dissatisfaction with the quality of work on this and other projects, asking that the Scouts tear up what had taken dozens of man hours to complete and start over. It was not "shoddy" work, but apparently not up to their nearly impossible standards. In most (but not all) cases, we were able to convince them that the work did not need to be redone. Our District Advancement Chair was aware of the situation, and had volunteered to sign off if the organization refused to, but that was fortunately not necessary.
fritz1255
Life
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Chester County Council

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby aflmom » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:04 am

It's sad when things end up that way. It ends up offsetting the pride of accomplishing a goal and finishing the project.

After our son's project was completed, it was torn down. Never made it to the newspaper. It wasn't the organizations fault but they're expanding and the county stated the new septic tank had to go in that area. :( More than anything, the wasted money bothers me. Oh, well....

Our lives have been crazy and I haven't checked in here for a long time although I still greatly appreciate everyone's help with my son's reference letters! Hope everyone is doing okay and has a great Christmas! (gasp, I used that word instead of holidays.)
aflmom
Star
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:19 pm
Location: Gulf ridge Council

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:13 am

fritz1255 wrote:I have to agree with Ursus on this - most of the "help" I got on this issue consisted of heaping criticism on the Scout and the Troop leadership. That is certainly what I got out of reading the posts.



Sorry you felt this way. I gave you the answer to your question on whether or not there was a BSA policy on EP scope creep on 14 May. We all attempted to get the rest of the story to better understand the situation.

Now that you have severed ties from the organization, will you share the total story?

Glad the scout had his ECOH. Hopefully his experience won't keep him from meeting his Eagle Charge responsibilities.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby cballman » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:55 am

fritz After reading your post on the negative comments about the scout and troop I have to say tha I am glad he finally finished. Now the part that you are upset with is that you asked for help from us. You gave no details as to what the project was. You are upset that we gave negative comments about the project, the scout, and the troop. My first question is why if you have had problems in the past with this group why would you send another scout to do a project? Then my last question is directed to you. Why would you ask for help with a project if you cannot or will not give any information about either? After rereading the posts that gave you help each and everyone was right with the information that you gave us to use. If you would reread all the post about this project or let someone else read it for you then you might understand how vague your questions were.
Charlie tha BEAR with issues
"if you aint a BEAR your snackfood"
cballman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:41 am
Location: Bluegrass Council KY

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby fritz1255 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:00 pm

Not upset at all - I was just a little taken aback by the negative feedback to what I thought was a fairly straightforward question as to whether an organization can add scope to a project.

We still have one Scout who has finished his project with the organization, everything has been signed off, but still has not done his Board of Review. In any case, I really don't want to start a war on this forum, which is exactly what would happen if I gave all the project details plus my opinions and someone from the organization were to see my posts and reply. I will be happy to EMail anyone who cares to know with the details, but not planning to post on a public forum such as this.

To answer the question as to why we sent another Scout to this organization after having problems, we didn't. The first Scout who did a project with them was able to complete in a reasonable period of time with reasonable scope. After that, we had several Scouts sign up to do projects with them, including the one in question, and the problems started.
fritz1255
Life
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Chester County Council

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:14 pm

Go ahead and email me.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:14 pm

fritz1255 emailed some details but asked that I not post them to the forum but if you would like more info, please email me using my email listed on the forum.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby Bill Pitcher » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:54 pm

Either one of you can e-mail me. I sure am curious as to what the project was and what they wanted to "change!"
Eagle '63, ASM, Council Advancement Comm.(Eagle advisor),OA VIGIL member,NESA, council training staff,
Bill Pitcher
Eagle
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:04 am
Location: Kingston, NY (Rip Van Winkle Coun.)

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby smtroop168 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:24 pm

Bill Pitcher wrote:Either one of you can e-mail me. I sure am curious as to what the project was and what they wanted to "change!"


I would do that but your profile doesn't list an email address
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby RWSmith » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:42 am

smtroop168 wrote:I would do that but your profile doesn't list an email address

What?

Unless you've been banned, you've got a valid email address hooked to the "email" button located at the bottom of every user's posts.

( Psst!... It's right next to their "profile" button. 8) )

================================

Also, this thread needs to end... Here; now. (Thanks.)
RWSmith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1625
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:45 am
Location: Mecklenburg County Council

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby Quailman » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:48 am

I don't see an e-mail button next to Bill's profile button.

[edit]And until I changed my preferences to allow users to e-mail me, I didn't have a button there either. [/e]
Quailman
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:52 am
Location: Sam Houston Area Council, Spring, TX

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:07 am

RW...there are lots of members without email buttons if I look at the Members section. Including Fritz1255.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby Quailman » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:41 am

It's a feature you have to turn on within your profile/preferences. It took me a few clicks to find it this morning. It allows other peon users to e-mail you if they wish to. I'm guessing superior people like RW can see the button no matter the user's preferences.
Quailman
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:52 am
Location: Sam Houston Area Council, Spring, TX

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:51 pm

smtroop168; you were right, I hadn't clicked it on. Try again, and thanks. Bill
Eagle '63, ASM, Council Advancement Comm.(Eagle advisor),OA VIGIL member,NESA, council training staff,
Bill Pitcher
Eagle
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:04 am
Location: Kingston, NY (Rip Van Winkle Coun.)

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:58 pm

Info has been sent.
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby Bill Pitcher » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:43 pm

Got it, thanks!
Eagle '63, ASM, Council Advancement Comm.(Eagle advisor),OA VIGIL member,NESA, council training staff,
Bill Pitcher
Eagle
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:04 am
Location: Kingston, NY (Rip Van Winkle Coun.)

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby RWSmith » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:21 pm

Quailman wrote:I don't see an e-mail button next to Bill's profile button.

[edit]And until I changed my preferences to allow users to e-mail me, I didn't have a button there either. [/e]

smtroop168 wrote:RW...there are lots of members without email buttons if I look at the Members section. Including Fritz1255.

Quailman wrote:It's a feature you have to turn on within your profile/preferences. It took me a few clicks to find it this morning. It allows other peon users to e-mail you if they wish to. I'm guessing superior people like RW can see the button no matter the user's preferences.

Oops! My mistake. :oops:

Admins always automatically have Admin privileges when they log in... And, yes, that means we see every body's email button. (It's been quite a while since I last logged in and looked around using a test account. So, I forgot. Plus, quite frankly, I thought this had been "fixed" in the last major phpBB update; but, I was wrong there, too.) Now, that doesn't make it the software's fault. No, it's still very much my fault. So, again, just to be clear, I apologize.
RWSmith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1625
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:45 am
Location: Mecklenburg County Council

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby fritz1255 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:20 pm

OK, the evil youth minister is gone (winning friends and shaping young minds somewhere else), and we have no current projects going on with this organization, so I guess the whole sad story can be told now. I will not name the organization, but it is a church within a mile or so of where I live. The Scout's project was to build a shed (about 10' x 20') at the back of the church's property. Some lowlights of the project execution:

After the project was begun, youth minister requested that the Scout wire the shed with 4 20-amp circuits so his youth group could run power equipment. This meant running heavy gauge wire about 300' from the breaker box at the church rather than light gauge wire just a few feet from a nearby light pole. Needless to say, this was not part of the original approved project that the youth minister had signed off on. Where are we supposed to get 300' of heavy gauge wire? "You'll have to get that donated".

On the day that we ran a trench for the heavy gauge wire, the church maintenance man showed us where to run it, which we did, and also ran conduit. Next day, the youth minister looks at the routing "that's not where I wanted it, you'll have to reroute it". Had to pull all the cable, retrench and reroute (one of our Troop dads is an electrician)

During the final meeting, where the entire Troop Committee showed up to support the Scout, youth minister demands that we put a gravel border around the shed so the maintenance man doesn't hit it with his weedwhacker. We did that too (also not part of the original scope).

Another Scout had a project with the same church to rebuild about 200' of flagstone walkway. He had to chip out all the old stone, relay it and regrout. Horrendous amount of labor (300+ hours) involved. Youth minister came by the next day after about 100' had been completed "Unacceptable work. You'll have to rip it all out again and start over". I personally couldn't see anything wrong with the job - maybe some grout smeared on top of some of the stones. We did not redo that project, and the youth minister signed under pressure from us and the district advancement chair, who apparently told him the Scout was getting his Eagle with or without his signature.

Epilog: I bike up to the church every month or so. Doesn't look like the shed door has been opened in months, and there is a thick layer of dust on everything inside. The "unacceptable" walkway is apparently acceptable now - no changes there either.
fritz1255
Life
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Chester County Council

Re: Help! Eagle Project Requirements Expanding

Postby jr56 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:53 pm

Wow, it's a shame some organizations are almost impossible to work for.
jr56
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:15 am
Location: Glacier's Edge Council, WI

PreviousNext

Return to Eagle Scout

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests