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Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

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Postby Hubert » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:07 pm

I just made Eagle not too long ago. Your son sounds like a very VERY mature young man. I agree with Cballman, I too would love to meet him. There are not too many kids his age that are like him. He sounds like a GREAT Eagle scout to me.

To already have graduated HS, he has to be extreemly smart, Im a Senior in HS right now, if he wants I can send him my HW and he can do it for me...scouts helping scouts. :lol:

Lol Im just kidding :lol: Im actually doing well in school now, was failing a lot, now Im making Honors and have a shot at being Validictorian, how ever you spell that :oops: .
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:33 pm

I am a HUGE proponent of Scouts taking responsibility for their own projects, advancement, etc. I don't contact MBC's for Scouts. I don't schedule MBs when parents contact me, etc.

BUT - there is a point when a Youth has done what they can where adults have to step in. In following this thread, this situation was clearly at (or maybe beyond) that point.

Your son's age or grade or anything else like that matters. The Scouters there are doing a grave disservice. Further, having had it pointed out to them, anyone who doesn't take action to correct it (not just for this case, but for future ones) is doing the same, or perhaps worse. If you look over the posts here, you will see that most of Scouting doesn't operate this way.

You should be proud of your son for what he has done (in Scouting and out). And, he should be proud of you for stepping in at the appropriate time and causing action. Perhaps even more so since this seems to be out of you "comfort zone".

I am proud of both of you. Now let me suggest that regardless of the actions taken by the Scouters there to resolve your son's Eagle process, that you continue to follow up and allow/encourage him to do the same. And, I don't suggest this to get people into trouble. The reason that it should continue to be followed up is because there will be other Scouts coming along and they deserve to be treated properly (as did your son, although he clearly wasn't). You have the facts and the momentum. Take advantage and see if you/he can get some things changed.

YiS
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Postby Quailman » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:47 am

I'll bet I'm not the only person who keeps checking this thread, waiting to jump up and down in joy when there is a proper resolution to this situation.
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Postby evmori » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:46 pm

Your son did a great job! No point lowering himself to this guys level.
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Postby jr56 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:48 pm

I can't believe the gross incompetancy and lack of resepct being displayed here by volunteer scouters. Your council must have everything backwards for allowing people like that to continue in their positions. Best wishes to you and your son. I hope everything turns out ok, you've certainly been through much more than anybody should be expected to put up with.
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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:01 pm

jr56 wrote:I can't believe the gross incompetancy and lack of resepct being displayed here by volunteer scouters. Your council must have everything backwards for allowing people like that to continue in their positions. Best wishes to you and your son. I hope everything turns out ok, you've certainly been through much more than anybody should be expected to put up with.


It is sad to say but this is not unusual. There was a poster on this forum that was trying to require scouts to do the requirements in order as they are in the MB Book. He was told he was wrong and when told that there where people from BSA that read this form he removed all his post. Same scouter arranged a private plane to fly his troop into the Grand Canyon for a camping trip clearly against G2SS. Why is he still a scouter? He donates money to the council. Councils will not remove a leader unless hey steal or are involved in child abuse. Or are arrested publicly for somthing.
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Postby t305spl » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:27 pm

Wagionvigil is exactly right! Unfortunately, it is very similar in most other organizations(especially volunteer). In a lot of other cases, as well, money and donations have nothing to do with it. I have heard the excuse "well he/she is volunteering their time, we can't be too hard on them". RIDICULOUS...if they aren't helping and making things worse, I will gladly volunteer my time to find someone else.

If the Scouter can not follow through with BSA policies and procedures they should be removed. Especially a Scouter in a leadership position at the District, Council, Regional, or National levels. They should be there to make sure every Scouter follows the program(not their own program but BSA's program...that mind you has been successful for almost 100 years)

aflmom...even after this is over with PLEASE file official Complaint Reports against all the parties(including those that did not assist immediately in solving this issue). DO NOT let them do this again! It is your responsibility now to make sure it has ended. Report them straight to National.

As the National Coordinator for an organization's Young Adult Program, I want to receive information if an Advisor/Coordinator is not following organization policy or procedure.
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Postby aflmom » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:53 pm

First, I want to apologize for not responding sooner. I thought I had set up the parameters to notify me when someone posted. I really, really want to thank everyone for their support especially when I'm a 'taker' and not a 'giver' on this board. We've encountered so much negativity through the years with early college, that after awhile you brace yourself for the assault.

Hubert, congratulations on your Eagle! I have a lot more appreciation for it now. :) I had to laugh about your hw. My ds is the last one that would want to help you. :roll: In spite of his record, he does not enjoy school. The output required takes away the pleasure of learning. He actually enjoys more creative and musical outlets than academics.

And now for the BIG news. His Eagle BOR is set for May 15!!! Last night there was a unit committee meeting and I was able to attend. We got home early from the award presentation at the college and went straight to the troop meeting. Our son went in his dress clothes. Imagine--no one said a word.

I did get a little flack for all the commotion I've created, but I just ignored it. The same with the remarks being made about being involved. It was just from the one person that's been sitting on our son's eagle project since is was completed in Dec, or Jan if you go by the dates he wanted my son to change it too.

Two other scouts are working on their Eagle project and the guy started going off on a rant that he wasn't going to sign the one scout off because he's not doing something with his project. And that by the time a kid is ready for their eagle they should be able to follow directions and know what they're suppose to do. Another person, and myself included, felt our role should be to help the scouts. It's a learning experience rather than a sink or swim experience. Even the project book states "Before you now is the opportunity to master yet another set of skills."

I know I should formally follow-up, but to be honest I have to think about it. I absolutely hate confrontation and only do so when I feel backed into a corner. However, there are other scouts involved and coming up. And how far back do I go. What about their attendance requirement to be considered active? What about the situation with my son in 2005 when he was pulled into a meeting with several adults? That's probably a moot point since that leader has been gone for over a year. Like I said, I need to think and pray about it.

Now I need to follow up with a person I contacted re: eagle scholarships that didn't call me back (sigh). Since we missed the deadline for this year and because of his age, I was wondering if they would give a waiver although he's already graduated high school.
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Postby wagionvigil » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:05 am

This cannot be allowed to happen to anymore youth from your troop. Whatever YOU have to do YOU must.
Last edited by wagionvigil on Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ASM-142 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:12 am

Something needs to formally filed with National on this. These scouters are not in scouts for the best interest of the scouts and shold be removed.

You can look at how they treated your son at this point in his life and know this is how they will (and have been) treating all other scouts that they have dealt with.
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Postby cballman » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:20 pm

if all you got was a little flak then boy I must be a bad person. we had a inicdent a few years ago and a scouter was told the his services was no longer needed and he was banned from scouting nationwide. He then thought about it later on and wanted to press the issue and get reinstated. bad mistake. I called the council office and talked to the second in charge and told him that if this man was reinstated I would call one of the local TV stations and let them know what happend and I would name names of him, his family and the local scout people. so if I was in your position I would not have anybody treat any of MY kids this way. and when I say my kids I am talking about ALL scouts that I know. not just my only son. but every scout that wears the uniform. I might ask someone to sit in on the BOR as a observer to make sure that nothing goes wrong. If I was close to your area then I would be glad to sit on his BOR, but since I am not, please find someone. after the BOR I would complain and force the issue as to why someone treats a child like this. this does not need to happen to any child regardless of age.
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Postby wagionvigil » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:44 pm

I would go outside the troop for the EBOR. In our council the scout gets to pick his EBOR members the only one that is required to be there is the District Eagle Advancement Chair. The Members of the EBOR do not have to be registered in scouting according to the Guidelines for the EBOR. I will tell you right now they cannot test him on anything. I would also say he better know the scout oath and laws.
WHat Are questions I ask?
Did you have fun in scouting? ANd WHay the answer you gave.
How do you plan on giving back to scouting if you pass this BOR?
WHat have you gotten out of scoutng?

What cannot be asked. What did you do for * Merit Badge
Tie * Knot
If you go to Eagle Scout.org there is a whole list of EBOR questions that are appropriate.
If he is turned down state right there that you will appeal and in that appeal you will go after the adults that have caused your son so much grief and then the Scout Exec. DO not be nice. Have at least a name of an attorney to throw at them :twisted:
There are many attorneys that are Eagle Scouts(make syou wonder does it not) a Scout is Trustworthy :roll:
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Postby 9009scoutmaster » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:29 pm

In our Council the district advancement chairman sets up the members of the EBOR. In some cases the scout might not know any of the members of the EBOR.
As so I understand that our council requires SM to hand deliver all completed Eagle applications to our councils service center.
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Postby smtroop168 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:38 pm

Here's my suggestion for his EBOR members: :D

wagionvigil
cballman
asm 142
evmori
chief j

I'll stay outside with the Council advancement member and have a chat. We all need a trip to FLA. :P

He'll do fine no matter who is on the board.
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Postby scoutaholic » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:42 pm

wagionvigil wrote:I would go outside the troop for the EBOR. In our council the scout gets to pick his EBOR members the only one that is required to be there is the District Eagle Advancement Chair. The Members of the EBOR do not have to be registered in scouting according to the Guidelines for the EBOR.

The guidelines do specify that board members do not have to be registered scouters, and that a council/district advancement person must be part of the board. The rest of the guidelines are pretty open.

In our area, the district advancement person contacts the troop committee chairman, and they arrange the date, time, and place. The troop committee chairman is in charge of making sure that at least 2 additional board members (besides the district person) are there, as well as inviting the boy, his parents, and the SM.

If a boy or his parents had a special request for whom the board members should (or should not) be, then the committee chair should honor that. I've never seen it done, but it should work. Theoretically, if I had the right contacts, I could have the Governor serve on the EBOR. (or in the case described in this thread, my favorite lawyer)

wagionvigil wrote:I will tell you right now they cannot test him on anything. I would also say he better know the scout oath and laws.
WHat Are questions I ask?
Did you have fun in scouting? And Why the answer you gave.
How do you plan on giving back to scouting if you pass this BOR?
WHat have you gotten out of scoutng?

What cannot be asked. What did you do for * Merit Badge
Tie * Knot
If you go to Eagle Scout.org there is a whole list of EBOR questions that are appropriate.


Actually, you can ask what the boy did for * MB, but can't ask him to justify how he earned it. There is nothing wrong with discussing certain scouting experiences the boy has had. It would probably be better to ask 'What did you learn from * MB?' or 'Which MB did you learn most from?' or 'What has your MB work taught you about life outside of scouting?' or something along those lines.

wagionvigil wrote:If he is turned down state right there that you will appeal and in that appeal you will go after the adults that have caused your son so much grief and then the Scout Exec. DO not be nice. Have at least a name of an attorney to throw at them

The EBOR must specify in writing (most likely verbally at the EBOR and followed up with a written version) why the boy failed, and outline specifically what he needs to do to qualify later. They must also specify how long they expect him to wait before convening a new EBOR. None of the issues previously mentioned in this thread would be justifiable reasons for the boy to fail his EBOR.

wagionvigil wrote:There are many attorneys that are Eagle Scouts(makes you wonder does it not) a Scout is Trustworthy

A church leader in my church used to be a lawyer. I've heard him talk about how hard it is to be a lawyer and stay honest. Honest lawyers DO EXIST, although they are rare. Hopefully most of the Eagle Scout Lawyers are honest lawyers.
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Postby aflmom » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:45 pm

He was told he could invite one person. As far as people involved: the district advancement chairman (which is the guy that has had his project). However, I'm confused about the whole thing since the DE said the guy shouldn't have been involved. Irregardless, he's the one that set the date for 5/15. He said he would be there, the sheriff, another guy (don't know his name but a friend whom he also invited to become a unit committee member), and the former SM that gave our son a hard time about going to college back in 2005. Our son is ok with who's going to be there. I have mixed feelings....But there is no reason for him NOT to get approved. He'll be dressed appropriately and he's comfortable answering questions.

Wished one of you guys lived nearby, so you could sit in with him!
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Postby scoutaholic » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:58 pm

aflmom wrote:He was told he could invite one person. As far as people involved: the district advancement chairman (which is the guy that has had his project). However, I'm confused about the whole thing since the DE said the guy shouldn't have been involved. Irregardless, he's the one that set the date for 5/15. He said he would be there, the sheriff, another guy (don't know his name but a friend whom he also invited to become a unit committee member), and the former SM that gave our son a hard time about going to college back in 2005. Our son is ok with who's going to be there. I have mixed feelings....But there is no reason for him NOT to get approved. He'll be dressed appropriately and he's comfortable answering questions.

Wished one of you guys lived nearby, so you could sit in with him!


It sounds like this board is stacked against him. Hopefully the sheriff and unit committee member will be on his side. Maybe the DE you mention could also come.

Officially, there is no limit to how many board members the boy can request/invite. However, I probably would not stir up the situation more by trying to outnumber the ones already included.

I would come, but I'm pretty sure my wife would be upset if I took 2 days off from work and paid for a pair of 6-hour plane trips.
Last edited by scoutaholic on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby aflmom » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:04 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Here's my suggestion for his EBOR members: :D

wagionvigil
cballman
asm 142
evmori
chief j

I'll stay outside with the Council advancement member and have a chat. We all need a trip to FLA. :P

He'll do fine no matter who is on the board.


Sounds great to me and looks like the odds would be stacked in our favor! :lol: May is a perfect time of the year to vacation in Florida. :wink:
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Postby aflmom » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:09 pm

scoutaholic wrote:It sounds like this board is stacked again him. Hopefully the sheriff and unit committee member will be on his side. Maybe the DE you mention could also come.

Officially, there is no limit to how many board members the boy can request/invite. However, I probably would not stir up the situation more by trying to outnumber the ones already included.


The sheriff and unit committee member are friends of the guy we've had problems with, but I hope everyone will be professional. Guess we'll find out.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:06 pm

aflmom wrote:
The sheriff and unit committee member are friends of the guy we've had problems with, but I hope everyone will be professional. Guess we'll find out.


Don't worry. If they fail him for his age he'll be able to appeal it and of course win. This will burn those leaders. As I have stated for many pages and cball gave an example of, I still believe these scouters need at least a suspension.
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