Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

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Re: Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Postby evmori » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:15 pm

Mrw wrote:
pipestone1991 wrote:
Finally, one boy wasn't properly uniformed (blue jeans and his Star rank still on uniform) and his paperwork was a mess. He came back in 3 weeks and did great. That was the Troop's fault for not making sure he was ready.


You can't fail someone for appearance only....that's extending the reqs.


You are right in that failing for uniform only would be wrong, but if the kid was sloppy in appearance and presentation and the paperwork was a mess, there are preparation issues that did need to be addressed. And it sounds like the boy learned from it and corrected things.


Granted a candidate for Eagle should be neat in appearance but would someone please let me know where being neat in appearance can be found in the requirements?
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Postby FrankJ » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:52 pm

Granted a candidate for Eagle should be neat in appearance but would someone please let me know where being neat in appearance can be found in the requirements?


I would put under do my best and a scout is clean. Some people are neater than others. (I am in the other category.) Failing to be neat in appearance for the 1/2 hour or so that a EBOR takes shows a lack of respect for the process, but it is only one piece of a bigger picture. I would not fail a scout just on neatness alone, but maybe would in combination of other factors presented at the EBOR. YMMV

As for the as the eagle project work book & application, by the time it get to EBOR, it has been looked at so many times it should be right, but it is (or should be) completed by the scout and is his responsibility.
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Postby Bill Pitcher » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:02 pm

Since I posted the last comment about a candidate wearing bluejeans, his Star rank and his paperwork was a mess.... I feel that an Eagle Scout candidate should look llike an Eagle Scout candidate: Be in FULL uniform out of respect and show the proper insignias. And yes, the Troop should have looked over the paperwork carefully. But once it is turned into the Scout Service Center, it isn't their job to see that the paperwork isn't a mess. They check the rank dates, merit badge dates and secure the references. The Troop failed the Scout here.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:17 pm

Bill Pitcher wrote:Since I posted the last comment about a candidate wearing bluejeans, his Star rank and his paperwork was a mess.... I feel that an Eagle Scout candidate should look llike an Eagle Scout candidate: Be in FULL uniform out of respect and show the proper insignias. And yes, the Troop should have looked over the paperwork carefully. But once it is turned into the Scout Service Center, it isn't their job to see that the paperwork isn't a mess. They check the rank dates, merit badge dates and secure the references. The Troop failed the Scout here.


You must take in consideration that many scouts cannot afford a full uniform.
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Postby evmori » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:26 pm

FrankJ wrote:
Granted a candidate for Eagle should be neat in appearance but would someone please let me know where being neat in appearance can be found in the requirements?


I would put under do my best and a scout is clean. Some people are neater than others. (I am in the other category.) Failing to be neat in appearance for the 1/2 hour or so that a EBOR takes shows a lack of respect for the process, but it is only one piece of a bigger picture. I would not fail a scout just on neatness alone, but maybe would in combination of other factors presented at the EBOR. YMMV

As for the as the eagle project work book & application, by the time it get to EBOR, it has been looked at so many times it should be right, but it is (or should be) completed by the scout and is his responsibility.


The Scout's Eagle Project Woorkbook should already be in the hands of the EBOR before he gets there. If he brings a copy for himself to reference, who cares what condition it's in. Maybe he's so nervous he dropped it in the parking lot!
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Postby FrankJ » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:08 pm

I was thinking of the workbook in the hands of the EBOR. The condition of any paper work the candidate carried for himself would not matter to me.
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Postby John F. » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:30 pm

The troop I am with, the full uniform that is requirted, is just a scout shirt.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:44 pm

John F. wrote:The troop I am with, the full uniform that is requirted, is just a scout shirt.


I believe that you will find that a Troop cannot change what constitutes a Uniform. There are other threads on this forum that discuss that in some depth, but I don't have time to look them up right now.

On the other hand, Venturing Crews can decide on uniforms.

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Postby Hubert » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:37 am

WVBeaver05 wrote:
John F. wrote:The troop I am with, the full uniform that is requirted, is just a scout shirt.


I believe that you will find that a Troop cannot change what constitutes a Uniform. There are other threads on this forum that discuss that in some depth, but I don't have time to look them up right now.

On the other hand, Venturing Crews can decide on uniforms.

YiS


Really? I glanced at older threads and looked through them. One said that a troop can choose what constitutes as a uniform for their troop and for troop events. I never saw one that said only crews can do so. However, it is late, and I may have missed it. If I did, please show me, and I apologize if I have done so.

~However~

If they have it, they should wear it, esp. for an Eagle BoR.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:13 am

Hubert wrote:

~However~

If they have it, they should wear it, esp. for an Eagle BoR.


I agree, however, there are still some who cannot afford a full uniform. In my troop (and in many others in the area), all you need is a class A.
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Postby evmori » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:44 am

FrankJ wrote:I was thinking of the workbook in the hands of the EBOR. The condition of any paper work the candidate carried for himself would not matter to me.


If the workbook was presented that way to the district/council advancement committee that way, it should have been returned on the spot to be returned neatly.
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Postby ASM-142 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:55 am

Hubert wrote:... ~However~

If they have it, they should wear it, esp. for an Eagle BoR.


Should they wear it? I would answer yes. Must they wear it?. I would answer no since a uniform is not required.
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Wearing full class A uniform to the EBOR

Postby Bill Pitcher » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:10 am

A boy wouldn't wear "jeans" to his Little League game, or his Karate Do Jo, or to his soccer games. Parents always seem to find the $ for those uniforms! So when a candidate comes to his EBOR, regardless of what his Troop sees as a "satisfactory" uniform for their Troop events, we expect him in full class A. Period! A missing piece can always be borrowed, or purchased at little cost from a used clothing store (such as the Salvation Army outlets, etc.). Remember, being an Eagle Scout is forever, And so are the memories of your Court of honor and the EBOR. A candidate should look the part.
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Re: Wearing full class A uniform to the EBOR

Postby evmori » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:24 am

Bill Pitcher wrote:A boy wouldn't wear "jeans" to his Little League game, or his Karate Do Jo, or to his soccer games. Parents always seem to find the $ for those uniforms! So when a candidate comes to his EBOR, regardless of what his Troop sees as a "satisfactory" uniform for their Troop events, we expect him in full class A. Period! A missing piece can always be borrowed, or purchased at little cost from a used clothing store (such as the Salvation Army outlets, etc.). Remember, being an Eagle Scout is forever, And so are the memories of your Court of honor and the EBOR. A candidate should look the part.


Well, ya can't deny him because he isn't in Full Class A (not a valid BSA term but we all know what it means). What if he show up in a suit & tie?
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"...a candidate should be in class A's . . ."

Postby Bill Pitcher » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:18 pm

We don't deny him the chance to become an Eagle Scout if he isn't in uniform. We tell him to come back when we agree on a rescheduled date. Usually, they know well in advance when we set the original date, to be in full niform. Coming to the EBOR in a suit and tie is an interesting thought! Has anyone had that happen?
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Postby jr56 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:57 pm

I have never seen it happen. Common sense should dictate that if you show up for an EBOR, you should be in full uniform. Any boy who has been in scouting long enough to earn the rank should be able to borrow one, if he doesn't have one of his own already.
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Postby jr56 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:59 pm

I have never seen it happen. Common sense should dictate that if you show up for an EBOR, you should be in full uniform. Any boy who has been in scouting long enough to earn the rank should be able to borrow one, if he doesn't have one of his own already.
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Re: "...a candidate should be in class A's . . ."

Postby evmori » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:55 pm

Bill Pitcher wrote:We don't deny him the chance to become an Eagle Scout if he isn't in uniform. We tell him to come back when we agree on a rescheduled date. Usually, they know well in advance when we set the original date, to be in full niform. Coming to the EBOR in a suit and tie is an interesting thought! Has anyone had that happen?


And what happens if he returns ans isn't in uniform? Do you reschedule again?
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" . . .shows yup again without uniform . . ."

Postby Bill Pitcher » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:14 pm

If the scout shows up again out of uniform, then he isn't interested in being an Eagle Scout, looking like one, and acting like one. No EBOR. If he showed up at a baseball or soccer game out of uniform, he doesn't play. That simple!
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Postby PaulSWolf » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:09 pm

Exept ownership of a uniform is NOT a requirement of BSA membership or advancement. The Advancement Committee Policies and procedures state the Scout should appear before the Board of review "In as complete a uniform as possible" If he doesn't own one (say he can't afford it), and is unwilling to borrow one just to satisfy your requirement, it is not possible to appear in one, and BSA has statd repeatedly that that is HIS decision, NOT yours.

If you don't hold the BoR and/or don't pass him on that basis he can appeal and your actions will be overturned.
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