Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

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Postby evmori » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:18 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Once there was a conviction the council advancement committee could recind the Eagle Award.


I would agree 100%
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Postby smtroop168 » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:03 pm

I would think only National could recind an Eagle Medal since they are the final certification that happens before the scout can get the medal. Also if a Council recinded a medal wouldn't the scout be allowed to appeal to National anyway?

Most councils to me wouldn't want to deal in any type of this controversy.
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Postby wagionvigil » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:07 pm

It would be the council that would recommend to National to recind the Eagle Award.
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Postby WeeWillie » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:23 pm

Suttle pressure from National is no excuse.

A Scout is Trustworthy - What were the honest convictions of the EBOR?

A Scout is Loyal - What about our loyalty to Eagles past, present and future that the award they earned will continue to be held in the highest esteem?

A Scout is Brave - Stand by your convictions.

As troop leaders we face more than suttle pressure from parents regarding advancement.
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Postby ASM-142 » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:58 pm

I agree so a certain extent that a scout that was convicted the day after passing his EBOR probable did not earn his Eagle. However, once a scout has passed his EBOR what criteria should be used for revoking an Eagle? Conviction within 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 10 years?
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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Postby smtroop168 » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:12 pm

The news of his arrest came after the EBOR was completed and he passed. Again, we had no reason not to pass him. The "pressure" was in my opinion self imposed by a couple of guys who felt that even if we didn't pass him, National would overturn it since they already had received an appeal from the Scout's father.

His arrest (not sure of the final outcome but this was at school so I think in PA you get expelled) info was passed to the Council professionals. Since the incident happened the next day, my guess is that his paperwork had not left the council.

It's a good question on what the statute of limitations should be on something like this. I remember an Atheist in Washington State had his medal revoked.

I'm sure the number of revoked medals is is not something National would want to share.
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Postby scouter01 » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:11 pm

depends what hte crime is. stealing revoke, but other things maybe not.
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Postby Hubert » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:24 pm

I tried staying out of this issue, but I cant anymore...

as stated earlier, it depends on the crime. But there are more than just stealing it should be revoked for. Indecent exposure, theft, and theres so much much more to go on about. CSC is something an Eagle Scout should NOT do. I do not want to be represented by an Eagle Scout whos done so.

Eagle Scouts represent us all, all of the scouts ans scouters in the U.S. They need to be worthy of carrying such a title and need to be responsible of the rank of Eagle.
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Postby wagionvigil » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:40 am

In Pa yes it is an automatic one year suspension. And as to sol there is none on Eagle National can request it returned at any time. Edited To be PC . WV
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Postby molscouter » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:41 pm

wagionvigil wrote:In Pa yes it is an automatic one year suspension. And as to sol there is none on Eagle National can request it returned at any time. There is at least one person from GW's cabinet that should return their Eagle.


Just curious, National can request, but what happens if the individual never returns it? There's not likley to be a lot of publicity about it, unless the individual attains some lofty office or becomes extremely well known. If a potential employer (or whoever) questions it, he still has the paperwork. Even if it were publicized, a few years pass and that goes away too.
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Postby smtroop168 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:25 am

I understand that the youth was severely chastised but nothing further was pursued.
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Postby danny_b » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:05 pm

A few years ago, a boy in my troop got into drugs and became inactive in the troop. He later went through rehab, completly cleaned up, and became active in the troop again. By this point, he was short on time, but did manage to finish all of his eagle requirements. However, he failed his board of review due to his past drug use and run-ins with the law. He and his parents appealed directly to national, and the decision was overturned. He went on to finish high school, and is now serving in the air force.
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Re: Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Postby Bill Pitcher » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:02 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Does anyone have experience in their scout not passing their Eagle BOR? If so, what was the reason(s)? I've traded emails with RWSmith and would like to see what other experiences troops had. Were all the BORs appealed? Did they receive their Eagle eventually? Did any go to National and were turned down?

Thanks.
Matt
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Yes, three times I have run Eagle B of R's where the candidate didn't pass! One candidate forged the signature on a reference. I happened to work with the referer and knew his signature! The next candidate held 5 work days and only attended one . . . his parents ran the others. Finally, one boy wasn't properly uniformed (blue jeans and his Star rank still on uniform) and his paperwork was a mess. He came back in 3 weeks and did great. That was the Troop's fault for not making sure he was ready.

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Re: Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Postby Bill Pitcher » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:07 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Does anyone have experience in their scout not passing their Eagle BOR? If so, what was the reason(s)? I've traded emails with RWSmith and would like to see what other experiences troops had. Were all the BORs appealed? Did they receive their Eagle eventually? Did any go to National and were turned down?

Thanks.
Matt
Eagle 1969


Yes, three times I have run Eagle B of R's where the candidate didn't pass! One candidate forged the signature on a reference. I happened to work with the referer and knew his signature! The next candidate held 5 work days and only attended one . . . his parents ran the others. Finally, one boy wasn't properly uniformed (blue jeans and his Star rank still on uniform) and his paperwork was a mess. He came back in 3 weeks and did great. That was the Troop's fault for not making sure he was ready.

Bill
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Re: Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Postby Bill Pitcher » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:25 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Does anyone have experience in their scout not passing their Eagle BOR? If so, what was the reason(s)? I've traded emails with RWSmith and would like to see what other experiences troops had. Were all the BORs appealed? Did they receive their Eagle eventually? Did any go to National and were turned down?

Thanks.
Matt
Eagle 1969


pitbill240 wrote: Three times I have run EBOR's where the candidate didn't pass/ One forged the signature on a reference (I happened to know the referer and it wasn't his signature), the second ran 5 project work days and only went to one . . . his parents ran the others, and the 3rd. Scout wore blue jeans, still had his Star rank patch on, and his paper work was a mess. He came back in 3 weeks and did a great job, and passed. That was his Troop's fault for not having him ready.

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Re: Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Postby pipestone1991 » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:41 pm

Bill Pitcher wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:Does anyone have experience in their scout not passing their Eagle BOR? If so, what was the reason(s)? I've traded emails with RWSmith and would like to see what other experiences troops had. Were all the BORs appealed? Did they receive their Eagle eventually? Did any go to National and were turned down?

Thanks.
Matt
Eagle 1969


Finally, one boy wasn't properly uniformed (blue jeans and his Star rank still on uniform) and his paperwork was a mess. He came back in 3 weeks and did great. That was the Troop's fault for not making sure he was ready.

Bill
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ASM
Eagle Mentor for RVW Council


You can't fail someone for appearance only....that's extending the reqs.
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Re: Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Postby Mrw » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:26 am

pipestone1991 wrote:
Finally, one boy wasn't properly uniformed (blue jeans and his Star rank still on uniform) and his paperwork was a mess. He came back in 3 weeks and did great. That was the Troop's fault for not making sure he was ready.


You can't fail someone for appearance only....that's extending the reqs.


You are right in that failing for uniform only would be wrong, but if the kid was sloppy in appearance and presentation and the paperwork was a mess, there are preparation issues that did need to be addressed. And it sounds like the boy learned from it and corrected things.
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Postby Nuts4Scouts » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:15 am

How does a Scout get to his EBOR with his "paperwork a mess"?

A Scout is not responsible for bringing any paperwork to his EBOR.

His application and project workbook have both been looked over and signed by his Troop. The Troop then gives them to the Council Service Center where they are verified and signed once again. Lastly they are given to the EBOR Chair. It is at this point that an EBOR is actually scheduled.

If the paperwork is "a mess", it should be discovered and corrected WAY before the EBOR itself!
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Postby Mrw » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:32 pm

Nuts4Scouts wrote:How does a Scout get to his EBOR with his "paperwork a mess"?

A Scout is not responsible for bringing any paperwork to his EBOR.

His application and project workbook have both been looked over and signed by his Troop. The Troop then gives them to the Council Service Center where they are verified and signed once again. Lastly they are given to the EBOR Chair. It is at this point that an EBOR is actually scheduled.

If the paperwork is "a mess", it should be discovered and corrected WAY before the EBOR itself!


I fully agree and the original poster commented that the troop had not properly prepared that boy.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:55 pm

[quote="Nuts4Scouts"]How does a Scout get to his EBOR with his "paperwork a mess"?

A Scout is not responsible for bringing any paperwork to his EBOR.

His application and project workbook have both been looked over and signed by his Troop. The Troop then gives them to the Council Service Center where they are verified and signed once again. Lastly they are given to the EBOR Chair. It is at this point that an EBOR is actually scheduled.
quote]

This is true, what did the troop do? For my EBOR, I only brought photos of my project, they had everything else. I kinda feel bad for the scout. On one hand, he is sloppy in appearance. On another, his paperwork should have been checked by the troop and fixed beforehand.
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