Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

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Eagle BORs - Scout is not successful

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:04 am

Does anyone have experience in their scout not passing their Eagle BOR? If so, what was the reason(s)? I've traded emails with RWSmith and would like to see what other experiences troops had. Were all the BORs appealed? Did they receive their Eagle eventually? Did any go to National and were turned down?

Thanks.
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Postby scouter01 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:10 am

why would it be turned down?
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Postby Mrw » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:33 am

I have never had personal experience with an Eagle being turned down, but we came close a couple years ago.

During the BOR, the boy was asked which of the 12 points of the law he would eliminate if he had to pick one. One of the Council reps sitting on the board was deeply offended and concerned that he had picked "Reverent."

The reasoning behind the choice was that the others all had to do with how you treat other people and that one didn't as much. It was not, in any way, a statement of personal disbelief in God.

He did pass the board and will always be a young man that others can look up to. He has very good grades, participates in several sports, has some community involvement and is planning on Westpoint for next year. One of the military academies was a goal from when I first had him in a Cub den years ago. A really great kid, so he did deserve to pass.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:08 am

If a Boy fails an Eagle BOR one of two things has happened.
1. Questions are asked that are retesting the scout on things he has done
2. The troop leadership has failed totally and needs replaced.

I have never heard of a boy failing his Eagle BOR
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Postby evmori » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:50 am

wagionvigil wrote:If a Boy fails an Eagle BOR one of two things has happened.
1. Questions are asked that are retesting the scout on things he has done
2. The troop leadership has failed totally and needs replaced.

I have never heard of a boy failing his Eagle BOR


Not sure these are the only two reasons. If I was sitting on a EBOR & the Scout was asked why he wanted to be an Eagle & his answer was "Because it looks good on a resume." I would have to vote against this Scout. Why? He wants the Eagle for all the wrong reasons.
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Postby Mrw » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:43 pm

My experience has been most boys do not truly appreciate what they have accomplished in earning Eagle until several years after the fact. If the boy did a good job getting there, even for the "wrong" reason, then he still deserves the award.

Five years from now he will be realizing that it looks good on the resume because of what he learned in leading the project and becoming a leader in the troop.
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Postby molscouter » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:00 pm

Not sure these are the only two reasons. If I was sitting on a EBOR & the Scout was asked why he wanted to be an Eagle & his answer was "Because it looks good on a resume." I would have to vote against this Scout. Why? He wants the Eagle for all the wrong reasons.


Ed, if I were chairing that board, I would have required you to write up what likely would have been a minority opinion so that it could be presented to the Scout when he was informed of the nonunanimity of the board. What would you have written?
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Postby jr56 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:28 pm

I have never personally seen a boy fail his Eagle BOR either.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:59 pm

This is to Ed the boy would appeal and the BOR would be overturned.SO why go through the hassel?
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Postby Mrw » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:20 pm

A guy I used to work with had a boy in his troop who presented himself very poorly to the Eagle board. He had done the work and project well, but was just not showing this at his board.

The reviewers all agreed that he needed to make some changes, they told him what they were disappointed in and rescheduled the board for the following week. The boy had listened to what he was told about how to present himself to people and was a completely different kid when he came back the next week.

He mentioned several months later that the talk on how to present yourself seemed to have had a lasting effect on the boy and his overall attitude.

I agree that the boy really should never get to a BOR and not be ready to pass.
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Postby evmori » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:01 pm

wagionvigil wrote:This is to Ed the boy would appeal and the BOR would be overturned.SO why go through the hassel?


It might be overturned, but that would not change my vote.

molscouter,
I would be happy to write up my opinion. It would say something to the affect that the Scout wanted to be an Eagle for the wrong reason.
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Postby molscouter » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:24 pm

molscouter,
I would be happy to write up my opinion. It would say something to the affect that the Scout wanted to be an Eagle for the wrong reason.


And the correct reasons for wanting to be an Eagle Scout are?
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Postby RMM » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:28 pm

I served on a Council Committee Eagle BOR that was an appeal after the scout did not pass the first BOR. The scout did not pass the first BOR as there were concerns regarding the Eagle project and who did the project. Unfortunantly, the scout's Eagle BOR happened after the scout turned 18. In reading the BOR summary, it was clear that the scout did not present his project clearly to the BOR. After further investigation by the Council Advancement Committee BOR, and a second BORat the Council Advancement Committee, the scout was awarded the Eagle he earned. Take home lession, having the Eagle BOR after you are 18 can be an issue if the Scout does not come prepared.

Last month at the district, a Scout did not pass his BOR. He was not prepared for the BOR. After discussion with the Scout, he was asked to come back this month. The Scout returned and much better prepared, relaxed and able to discuss his project and scouting. He was awarded the Eagle he earned.

Reasons not to pass the Eagle BOR. The scout is not prepared for the BOR, is not able to discuss his project and scouting. Additional reason, the scout did not complete the project -- Mom and Dad did the project and the scout was along for the ride. Unable to think of other reasons at this time.
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Postby scoutaholic » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:37 pm

evmori wrote:Not sure these are the only two reasons. If I was sitting on a EBOR & the Scout was asked why he wanted to be an Eagle & his answer was "Because it looks good on a resume." I would have to vote against this Scout. Why? He wants the Eagle for all the wrong reasons.


That would be adding to the requirements. There is nothing in the Eagle requirements that says they have to want it for the right reasons. It is not the job of the BOR to determine if the boy has the correct Eagle Attitude.


I have personally never seen a EBOR that didn't pass. There was one a few years ago where the boy had finished before he turned 18, but didn't turn in the papers for 6 months. When it came time for his BOR, there were questions about the 6 month time gap. The BOR accepted his reasons, but required that he write up a formal letter of explanation to accompany his application when it was sent to National.
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Postby cballman » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:48 pm

RMM I think that your post was great and that the board took the time to talk to the child in question and let him know what his shortcommings are. I just wished that everybody could understand that these are still kids that still need guidence. all kids are not perfect and maybe need a time to talk and explain what needs to be done. this is also a life lesson not just scouts. lets not make a total harsh judgement on a child or someone else that could lead to someone going over the edge.
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Postby Fibonacci » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:01 pm

Our District Eagle representative shared this story: minutes before before the BoR, someone realized that the Scout candidate had not held his leadership position for six months; it was only five months. They talked with the Scout about this shortcoming. The SM was there and offered that the Scout had performed other leadership that hadn't been recorded.

I don't recall if the Scout revised his paperwork at that point, or if he was called back a few weeks later. The representative did say that the Scout was perfectly willing to serve in leadership roles for any additional length of time.

I don't know how this miscalculation got so far. As Advancement Chair, I try to keep accurate records and I'm sure others do as well. But this is ultimately the responsibility of the Scout.
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Postby ASM-142 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:34 pm

RMM wrote: ... Last month at the district, a Scout did not pass his BOR. He was not prepared for the BOR. ...


Can you provide examples on how the scout was not prepared for his BOR?
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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Postby ASM-142 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:36 pm

Fibonacci wrote:Our District Eagle representative shared this story: minutes before before the BoR, someone realized that the Scout candidate had not held his leadership position for six months; it was only five months. They talked with the Scout about this shortcoming. The SM was there and offered that the Scout had performed other leadership that hadn't been recorded.

I don't recall if the Scout revised his paperwork at that point, or if he was called back a few weeks later. The representative did say that the Scout was perfectly willing to serve in leadership roles for any additional length of time.

I don't know how this miscalculation got so far. As Advancement Chair, I try to keep accurate records and I'm sure others do as well. But this is ultimately the responsibility of the Scout.


If the SM signed off on the leadership position then that requirement is complete. You can not have the scout go back and do more leadership.
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Postby FrankJ » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:11 pm

If the SM signed off on the leadership position then that requirement is complete. You can not have the scout go back and do more leadership


Of course you can. In this case it was clear he was not in a recognized leadership position for the required time. The BOR is not a rubber stamp. If it finds legitimate issues it can turn down the scout. What is required is that they document the issue and what is required to correct it. If the troop has done it's job, a scout who is not ready should not get to the BOR. That is why a scout is rarely turned downed out the BOR.

<snip> Edited by RWSmith for content.
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Postby evmori » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:06 am

scoutaholic wrote:
evmori wrote:Not sure these are the only two reasons. If I was sitting on a EBOR & the Scout was asked why he wanted to be an Eagle & his answer was "Because it looks good on a resume." I would have to vote against this Scout. Why? He wants the Eagle for all the wrong reasons.


That would be adding to the requirements. There is nothing in the Eagle requirements that says they have to want it for the right reasons. It is not the job of the BOR to determine if the boy has the correct Eagle Attitude.


I have personally never seen a EBOR that didn't pass. There was one a few years ago where the boy had finished before he turned 18, but didn't turn in the papers for 6 months. When it came time for his BOR, there were questions about the 6 month time gap. The BOR accepted his reasons, but required that he write up a formal letter of explanation to accompany his application when it was sent to National.


Nope this isn't adding to the requirements. Someone already posted this - a BOR isn't a rubber stamp. If a Scout has made it this far and feels he has earned Scoutings highest rank, he should be able to show that in his EBOR.
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