New SM looking for advice ...

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New SM looking for advice ...

Postby Vetoer » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:19 pm

Hi, all. You have probably seen me posting a bit previously about a few issues we've had with our Troop. Well, I got upgraded to ScoutMaster about 7 weeks ago and now I have a whole slew of stuff I have to figure out. This was totally unexpected. Our previous SM was stepping down and picked his successor, which was fine as we were all happy to have someone willing and (seemingly) eager to step into that role. However, 9 weeks ago the one who was to be our new SM disappeared (along with his son) and we haven't heard from him since. His son started coming back when I was able to get ahold of his mother and pick him up for meetings. 8 weeks ago the SM who was stepping down up and moved, didn't say bye to the Scouts or anything. So now what?

I got appointed to SM due to the fact that I am the only Adult Leader available to be SM. Lucky me! Not that I'm complaining, I've had a whole lot more fun in Cub/Boy Scouts than I ever had in Girl Scouts. So, I'll just list my concerns and let you all discuss while I read along. Don't worry about offending me if it's something I need to tone down a bit on, I need that advice too on occasion.

1. The prospective SM that disappeared still has all the ScoutMaster stuff and has said that if anyone comes to his place to get anything back he'll beat them bloody (not his words but it's more polite than what he actually said).

2. The old SM was there for 10 years, his way is the only way these Scouts know and it was not the Scouting way from all that I can find information on. I'm a mom. I was raised to know that until I reached legal age (18) I was an adult-in-training. I know the boys will make mistakes and just as my mother made allowances, I make allowances with my Scouts. Is it over the top to believe that the Scouts should 'live the Law'?

3. I have been informed that the Troop Committee WILL NOT attend training. The Chair believes he knows what the BSA requires and that's all he's going to do.

4. Along with and because of #3, I have also been informed that NO BUDGET we present to the Committee will be approved. But if we want to go for the Journey to Excellence, National requires both 3 and 4 to be fulfilled. Note: The only money our Troop receives from our Charter is for rechartering costs. The Scouts sell parking space and water at our Charter parking lot during a local festival that occurs 2 blocks down the street to cover that expense.

5. None of our Scouts (in the 2 years my son has been involved) have been TAUGHT how to do their 'job'. The old SM told them what was needed and said go to it, he didn't explain how to do anything and when they came to him with a problem they needed help with he said figure it out. I can't do that, if one of the boys came to me (such as our Quartermaster) with something he didn't know how to do and needed help on, I have to teach him, correct? Isn't it my 'job' to instruct them, just as it is my 'job' as a Merit Badge counselor to teach them?

6. Our SPL just got re-elected for the second year (3rd time) to SPL. He has skipped more meetings than he has attended in the last year. The other 2 Adult Leaders and I informed the boys 2 weeks before our Winter Banquet that elections were coming up and which positions they were eligible to put their names forward for. We got jumped on with both feet by our SPLs mother because his name was not on the list when he finally returned to meetings. How can I tell if he is really wanting to do this job or if he's just wanting it for the prestige?

Well, I guess that's it ... for now anyway. Are these as difficult as I'm feeling they are or are they simple? I try not to sweat the small stuff but good Leadership is seeming to be more difficult to find than I thought.

Thanks for all replies.

L. Larocque
Scoutmaster, Troop 77
Lincoln Trails Council
Redhawk District
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby Quailman » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:03 pm

You didn't mention whether you've been through training. SM/ASM and IOLS (Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills) in addition to Fasts Start or whatever they call the basic online class. If not, attend immediately. Check outside your district if necessary.

Don't worry about any "Scoutmaster stuff". Go to your scout shop and get a SM handbook and troop leadership training materials.

Conduct mandatory troop leadership training for the POR youth. They will learn what their responsibilities are so that you don't have to lead meetings. During the training, have the boys make a start/stop/continue list of everything they do or want to do to make a better troop. Part of this should be attendance requirements for SPL, ASPL and PLs, as well as how to handle absences.

For the stingy committee who won't attend training, I think you need to contact a Unit Commissioner. That's ridiculous.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby Vetoer » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:48 pm

@Quailman.

Sorry about that. I have attended SM training as well as all the YPT, FastStart, etc that is available online. I haven't had the chance at the IOLS yet, it's supposed to be offered in my council/district this coming summer and I'll be there.

*sighs* I figured it was going to be a matter of getting my own equipment. Ah well, I had planned on it later on in the year but really wanted to start reading asap. Okay, note to self, get a book.

*groan followed by a growl* Every single mandatory meeting, workday, etc. we have instituted the past year the SPL does not attend. This is usually 'excused' for illness or 'family business out of town' at the next meeting he attends. Granted, they all need this but isn't it for general business instead of their specific 'job'?

Unfortunately our Unit Commissioner is the one who informed me of the comments I passed on to you. He is a member of our Chartering Organization. He is currently asking for what we can do about it with our DE.

Any other clarification needed? Just ask. Thanks!
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby Quailman » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:12 am

Troop Leadership Training teaches the PLC how the troop should function, but each position gets a card with his job description on it. He lists his own goals for how he will make the troop better. They each understand how the parts come together for the good of the troop.

I think the PLC needs to set goals for attendance. The committee could do it with your input, but it will hit home with the boys, and SPL, if they come up with the goals.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby biglou » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:04 am

Don't be afraid to ask questions and ruffle feathers. (I did a pretty good job at that!)

Take as much training as you possibly can. Encourage the Troop Committee to complete their training as well. That is one problem that I am seeing with my old Troop. The "I know everything about Scouting because I was a Scout attitude" can cause problems. Also go to Roundtables if you can. That will help out a lot.

Help the PLC to get organized and has a plan (IE, program calendar). If the SPL or any of the other leaders are not doing their job, don't be afraid to replace them.

Get a budget.

Utilize your Unit Commissioner. His/her job is to help you. I wish I would have had one to help me out. Remember I said I ruffled some feathers.

Utilize as much free stuff as you can. The Troop Program Features Vol. I-III and Troop Program Resources are online at http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/conten ... couts.aspx

Train your Scouts to do their jobs. Here is the current version of the Intro to Leadership Skills for Troops
http://www.scouting.org/filestore/train ... 11-016.pdf

The biggest thing I can say is have fun. If you aren't having fun, then it's time to reevaluate things and go from there.
Big Lou

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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby biglou » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:07 am

Also, Scouting magazine has a lot of good helps in there. It can give you some ideas.

Utilize the Journey to Excellence Program. Your Unit Commissioner can help you with that.

Wood Badge is also another good help as well. Go to the training. It is well worth it.

Did I mention have FUN?
Big Lou

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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby kwildman » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:59 am

for best results...your UC should NOT be affiliated with your charter organization. Go to round tables and get to know other SMs they can be a great resource and have been there and done that already.

good luck
No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. - Lord Baden-Powell
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby ismellbacon » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:35 am

Remember that every event is a learning opportunity, good or bad.

Each troop is different, but follow the information set forth in the SM handbook and in your training classes... they work.

You can please some of the adults all of the time, and all of the adults some of the time... but you can't please all of the adults all of the time. Be prepared to explain your actions and reasoning, but if they don't like it offer them to be Scoutmaster or take a walk (politely). They need to understand the situation you are in and that you are learning. Human beings make mistakes often.

Try to motivate your youth leadership through regular Patrol Leader Council meetings and training. Everyone has an equal right to be a leader in some capacity that fills the rank requirements. I would strongley encourage the SPL to think of his fellow scouts and the opportunity for others to be SPL. (even the Prez is limited to two terms)

Recruit, or bribe, or threaten more Asst. Scoutmasters. You should be the guiding hand of the troop, and they should be the fingers. Once the scouts have recieved their troop leadership training, then they are as ready as they will ever be to run the troop. Remember that they will fail, fail often, and truly impress you at how fast they grow into leaders if you let go of the reins. Provide a safety net when health and safety is involved, but give them plenty of slack to run.

How long has your Committee Chair been warming the seat? Maybe it is time for fresh blood if he/she won't get on board and take the required training that can be done ONLINE in the comfort of his/her own HOUSE at his/her LEISURE......


And, most of important, pray, pray for guidance and strength. He keeps me going when I don't want too.
Yours in scouting,

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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby razor_strop » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:54 pm

If your Committee Chair remains intransigent on both training and a budget, that's a very bad sign IMO. Since no one else was willing to step up and take over SM, you are in a relative position of power. No SM, no troop. It may be time to talk with the Committee Chair, explaining how to provide a quality program you need more committee support, to include all of them doing training (its all online and takes less than an hour for YPT and Troop Committee Challenge, for goodness sake) and an approved budget. If he's still unwilling, then go speak to the Chartered Organization head, providing you have someone lined up to take over as committee chair if the current one is removed. If the CO head isn't willing to do that, then maybe you should shop around for a new Chartered Organization in town and start the troop afresh, with folks willing to pitch in to do what's best for the Scouts rather than themselves.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby jr56 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:36 pm

I guess I would have to agree with several posts. Get the committee chair and the committee trained ASAP. If they are unwilling to learn how to do their jobs correctly, they should be replaced.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby FrankJ » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:23 pm

1) If you do not know why the prospective SM took his toys & went home, you should. There is clearly more to that story. You don't really need to share it here, but you need to know.

2) You need to find common goals & vision with the Committee Chair. Nothing good comes from having the 2 key adult leaders at cross purposes. You can start with the assumption that anybody volunteering their time wants what is best for the boys. The problem is generally just deciding what is really best for the boys really means.

3)Committee training is overblown. But it only take a little time to do the online course. Better probably would be have a social meeting with a savy UC & discuss just really what are the goals the committee has for the troop inside of a hour & 1/2 they will be trained & never know it. Other than that they need YPT, they can't stay registered without it. The advancement coordinator needs to know the rules. The "Guide To Advancement" has all that. The others just need to know what a BOR really is.

4) Other than the occasional command performances the scouts need to be deciding their activities. If they are doing stuff that is interesting to them a lot of the other issues will go away. It still like herding cats though. If the SPL is not showing up & is not making sure his job is covered then he is not really the SPL. Start expecting the youth to make meaningful command decision & they will elect leaders that want to do the job. As SM you really have a primary say in what those expectations are. We have an informal rule that the SPL cannot run for multiple terms. Maybe not the best idea for a small troop, but you might encourage current SPL to step down & give others a chance.

5) JTE is a tool for making a better troop. Use it as form of introspection. Don't worry about the parts that do not fit even if it means you don't score well.

6) Don't expect the DE to get involved in your troop internal politics. The good ones stay far away from this & you really do not want the bad ones involved.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby Vetoer » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:33 pm

Hi, all. I'm back. Been taking a breather from everything since it's the Holidays but I'm getting back into the swing. I've read all the replies you have been nice enough to post and I really appreciate all the good advice. I'll try to address everything and expand some explanations.

@FrankJ & several others : I did a little asking and downright snooping, talking to people who know the man who was supposed to be SM and such so I know quite a bit more about him now. That said, it no longer surprises me that he bailed. I found that he had never been registered with the BSA, he filled out the paperwork but it had never been sent in so the background was never done and he would have failed it from the little I now know. So, I guess that it's for the best that he bailed. With the CC problem, not sure what else I can do. I wasn't thrilled with him when he was first introduced to me but he's a decent guy, works hard, wants what is good for the boys, he just believes that he knows EVERYTHING when he actually knows very, very little as far as the BSA is concerned because he was never a Scout. Unfortunately, I can't get him or the full committee to meet with me to discuss anything because the CC says it isn't necessary for them to meet with the SM regularly. I know there's a few other people on the committee but I have never met any of them except for the CC. Thankfully we have a wonderful DE and she only steps in with advice if I call her or if it is something that will reflect badly on the BSA organization, that's only happened once the past 2 years (thank God!).

To everything (and everyone) else : Thanks for the advice and support. It is really appreciated. I'm going to be looking for all the websites and info I can have in hardcopy so I have proof of what the BSA needs from its chartering organizations. I'm going to be getting information for me and my young men so that we all know what we need to do and how to do it properly. Guess it's time to put on my 'teacher cap'. Thanks all.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby jr56 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:36 pm

It is nice of you to try to educate these people, but from what I have experienced over the years, anytime somebody thinks they know it all, there is not alot you can do in the way of education, unless they want to be ecucated. You might be best to check with the COR to see if you can get the CC replaced. Or look into finding a new chatering organization, or even a new troop. I'm afraid you'll just end up banging your head against a brick wall with Mr. Know it All.
Good luck
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby White Bear » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:06 pm

The UC shouldn't be part of the Charting Organization is correct. However this might be helpful. The former Scoutmaster "took" all the Scoutmaster stuff with him - well its not his to take (unless he bought and paid for it) it should be the property of the Chartering Organization; and in some circles COULD be considered theft. Just throwing that out there.

As for getting the Committee trained. I'm surprised the DE and the district training folks are not setting the phones on fire. I have heard the 'rumor' that those Adult Volunteers NOT trained for their positions will be dropped from the charter - just rumor - nothing more...yes the online training has a bit to be desired. A suggestion would be to request to have a LIVE training event.

I agree with razor_strop; if you go; so goes the troop. Find a core of adults you can pull from (Older scouts - your SPL might be better as a JASM) and get trained. Get the boy leaders on board with a PLC team building event.

Most importantly. Take a DEEP Breath. and as BigLou says "HAVE FUN!"
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby JH-SM-T03 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:36 am

Committee member training not a rumor. SOme councils have already required it effective for my council for the year that began today. The info I was given is that we did it a year early, so everyone will see it sooner rather than later.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby kwildman » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:18 pm

It is coming our council was in the first group to transition and we had to have 100% trained last year. You can not submit your charter without 100% trained.
No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. - Lord Baden-Powell
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby FrankJ » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:36 pm

Of course that means that training will have to be recorded in a working system. At least 50% of the courses I have taken have not. Closer to 90% of the courses taken on the council level. Admittedly this is getting better.

A untrained committee is the least of this new SM problems. More important is a working relationship with the committee chair. Get the fundamentals down. Get the adults thinking along the lines on how to make the troop better. Which largely means teaching the youth how to run their program. The desired to get trained will follow.
Frank J.
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Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:53 pm

Sorry I've been out of pocket dealing with my Dad's health issues.

Vetoer...My advice is simple...a final meeting with the committee telling them that you need their full support to keep the troop going or you will not continue. After seeing a number of these scenarios in real life and on the forums, it is my opinion that you will spend an inordinate amount of time and energy with these folks and still have continual issues.

If they balk (since they know it all) or don't show you'll have your answer. Then offer the boys in the troop an opportunity to join you in a new troop. Your council may assist you in finding a sponsor.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby scoutaholic » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:47 pm

First of all - Congratulations on your new position. You will find that, despite the hard days, it can be fun and rewarding.

1 & 2 - It sounds like you are better off not having the prospective SM around. If the former SM was not attempting to run the program as outlined by the BSA, then it is probably a good thing that someone new is taking the job.
As far as 'Scoutmaster Stuff', there are some useful materials (books, etc.) usually available at the scout shop or online. I'm not sure what else would be included as 'Scoutmaster Stuff'. Any equipment (tent/camping gear/etc.) and materials COULD have been purchased by the previous SM. If that is the case, then it is his and you have no right to it. If it was purchased with troop funds, then it belongs to the troop and he stole it. Any records (advancement & financial) should be handled by the committee, but if this info is included the the 'Scoutmaster Stuff', then he has no need of it, and you do need it. Perhaps a civil conversation with the person who has the stuff will get you any important info you can't replace. Based on your other comments, this civil conversation is more likely to be you than anyone on your committee.

3 & 4 - You don't have a committee. The chair is unwilling to work with you and you have never met any of the others. If this continues to be the case, then it is time to recruit a new committee that is willing to do their jobs (including training). The job of the committee is to provide program support for the troop. This is mostly done by meeting with the SM on a regular basis, so that the committee knows what support is needed. SM should be meeting regularly with the whole committee. How can they pretend to be a troop committee if they won't work with the troop and the selected leader(s)? In my corner of the world, working committees are rare. It makes the SM job harder, but you and your ASMs can share the responsibilities if the committee is not doing it. In the absence of a working committee, have your PLC work out an annual budget, and work with it regardless of committee approval.

5 - Get your youth leaders together for some training ASAP. The training materials include job descriptions for each position, and a basic outline to train the boys how to work together and how a troop should be run. Yes, you can provide guidance for youth who want to know how to do their jobs. Aside from health & safety issues, the primary job of the SM is to train the youth leadership. Your ASMs should help in guiding the youth leaders. Perhaps there is an ASM or Committee Member or SPL who could help the QM so that you don't have to divide your time with ALL the youth leaders.

6 - There is nothing wrong with having expectations of your SPL. If he is unwilling to do the job (either be at meetings to take charge, or make sure ASPL is prepared in his absence), then he should be replaced. Mom should not run the re-election campaign for SPL. Talk with the boy (Scoutmaster Conference) and see what he wants to do as SPL. He is in charge of the Patrol Leaders Council, and if he doesn't want to take the time to lead, then he shouldn't have the position.

Other advice from a former SM:
Don't expect the troop to run perfectly now. They are learning what a real troop is. The boys and parents will support you as you transition to a better troop program. It will likely take time for them to readjust their expectations. (It took about 3 years for my troop to readjust their expectations and really take hold of the program BSA and I wanted to implement). Add or Change things a few at a time. If the troop is suddenly a new program, you may have trouble getting them to accept all the changes.

In my 10 years as SM, I only had the support of a working committee for about 2 years. Run the program as best you can, with or without their support.

Have a regular Scoutmaster Conference with every boy regardless of their advancement progress. This is how you will know what program they want, and what they see as needing improvement. This is also a good time for you to continue helping your youth leaders to learn and do their jobs.

I would start building the new troop program by making sure you have a working outdoor program. Make sure there is a camp or outing scheduled every month. Keep to the schedule. ("In this troop we camp every month, weather or not.") If you cancel plans, the boys will learn to expect cancellations. Make sure each camp has some activity/purpose besides just camping. If camp means setup in the dark, sleep, eat, packup, and go home, it is not really an outdoor program.

Work with your PLC to make an annual plan. Find out what the boys want to do and include those things in the plan. Make sure to get your district and council events on the troop calendar. The easiest camp planning for a troop is to attend the district/council camps. Sometimes the way you propose a calendar item makes all the difference. Don't ask, "Do you want to participate in the Scout-O-Rama this year?" Instead ask, "What would you like to do in our booth at the Scout-0-Rama this year?" Ask "How many troop service projects do we want to do this year?" "What camping and outdoor activities do you want to plan?" "Which scouting skills and/or merit badges should we work in January?" Don't dismiss the value of an OCCASIONAL night when they just get together to do something fun (and build friendships and team). MOST troop meeting nights should have a planned scouting purpose.
In my troop we planned swimming on the first week of every other month. The other months we would spend the night focusing on the "Duty to God" program of our Charter Organization. Plan time for a quarterly Court of Honor, service projects, fund-raisers, etc. Other nights in the month would be filled in with learning/practicing skills for the upcoming outdoor activity, or focusing on advancements. We usually chose 1 merit-badge to focus on each month, about 6 of them Eagle required.
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Re: New SM looking for advice ...

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:24 pm

All good advice scoutaholic but unless she can solve your #3/4, it will be a continual tense organization and take time and energy away from the boys.
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