Older boys helping with meetings

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Older boys helping with meetings

Postby Quailman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:09 pm

I have been the CC of my troop since January 1. At our meeting Monday, the SM invited two former members who aged out last year to help run the meeting. The patrols were working on cooking skills for the upcoming camporee. Ignore for a moment the fact that the older boys in the troop should have been helping the younger ones with their skills, not some outside ringers.

I told the SM afterwards that it's great that those two boys (one is his son) want to remain active in the troop. In order to continue they need to take YPT and register. His response was that one - his son - is registered in Venturing and he didn't know if the other was 18 yet. I didn't argue the latter point, but he aged out in October and everyone in the troop knew this. I only addressed the Venturer. He said boys can dual register so Venturers are around Boy Scouts at their meetings and at functions such as Jamborees. I said you need to be 13 to be in Venturing, and in my troop, which has a lot of 11 and 12 year-olds, he's an adult who needs to get YTP and register.

BTW, one older boy who was there is an Eagle with three palms. When he started to show a patrol how to set up their stove, the SM came over and said "Joseph will be in charge of this group." But as I said, I want opinions on the older boys not registering. My 19 year-old son is registered as an ASM and is fully trained.

Thoughts?
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Re: Older boys helping with meetings

Postby FrankJ » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:22 pm

My son turn 18 a year ago Dec. He registered as an ASM, fully trained with YPT yada yada. He is also a youth with the crew. One of his friends is in a similar situation. Leads to some quirky situations. On troop outings, he is an adult. On Venturing outings he is a youth. So which set of people he can be alone with flips with the outing. On combined outings I tell him he cannot be alone with anybody. :shock: Combined outings happen often because our crew has a teaching mandate.

OA has solved this quandary be just saying everyone under 21 is a youth.

In terms of program. The SM runs the show. CC can advise, but SM has the final word. (short of firing the SM) In terms of policy the committee really has the final say. Say if the committee has a policy that everyone over 18 in contact the youth need YPT, you can enforce that. But you should be consistent in the application and require all outside adults to be YPT not just a select few.

If son is present as a venturer then BSA does not require him to take YPT. Adult supervision should also be present to be policies are followed. My crew regularly present to cub packs & most of them do not have YPT. If he is regularly around in another capacity he should register as an ASM & get trained.
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Re: Older boys helping with meetings

Postby smtroop168 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:16 pm

Quailman wrote:I told the SM afterwards that it's great that those two boys (one is his son) want to remain active in the troop. In order to continue they need to take YPT and register. Thoughts?


Why? Maybe they just wanted to participate for that meeting and can't commit to a full time leader position. Did you ask them? Would you say the same thing if a couple of Dads did the same thing or came to a meeting with a special skill or presentation for the boys or went on a couple of campouts as extra help? One of my Dads is an Asst DA and he came and helped put with the Citizenship 1st class req. but I didn't feel it necessary to hand him an adult app.
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Re: Older boys helping with meetings

Postby FieldSports » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:14 pm

Wow, your SM got two 18 year-olds to help teach a group of 11-12 year olds and they were Eagle Scouts to boot!! Most SM's would kill for that type of help. This is the exact role models you need in your unit. Add your son in the mix, and now you have three!! Young men offering to give back are priceless assets. Given that both have been Boy Scouts, I will assume that they have read the YPT material in both the Boy Scout Handbook and the Venture handbook. Why are you concerned about these young men, at a general meeting with ASM and the SM present?

I do have to ask, how would you want to have been treated if you were volunteering your time at age 18/19?
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Re: Older boys helping with meetings

Postby Quailman » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:16 pm

So you're saying it's acceptable to have 18 year-old guests at troop meetings. Do they need to be Eagles? What about 20 year-olds? 30 year-olds? I thought that when a person reached 18 they were considered adults as far as troops go. I did not tell them to leave. I simply asked the SM, who had invited them, to ask them to take YPT and register as ASMs. That's what my son did (he's fully trained). BTW, he didn't ask my son to help. BTW, the SM's son is in Venturing. The other aged out and is not registered.

The bigger issue here is that the PLC made plans for the meeting, and the SM brought two aged-out boys to take charge of it. IMO, older, active members of the troop should have been working with the younger ones. At the beginning of the meeting, a 15 year-old Eagle Scout with three palms was starting to work with one patrol. As I said, when he started to show a patrol how to set up their stove, the SM came over and said "Joseph will be in charge of this group." The Eagle Scout was basically pushed aside. He left the meeting early.
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Re: Older boys helping with meetings

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:01 pm

Venturers, even 18-20 year old Venturers, are considered youth members.

Venturing awards contain a requirement for teaching/sharing skills. One way BSA recommends they do this is to work with Cub and/or Boy Scout units.

As you were asked, do you require all of the Troop's parents who help out in any capacity at meetings/outings, even if a one time thing, to be registered and trained ASM's?

As CC, you are not in charge of program. That is the SM's area.

However, I would have a FRIENDLY talk with the SM about why the boys were there, how it impacted the PLC's plans for the meeting, and how it impacted the boy-led aspect of the Troop. Please do NOT bring the fact that your registered/trained son was not asked to help into the discussion.

BTW, why does a registered, trained, ASM, need to be "asked to help" at a Troop meeting? Shouldn't ASMs already be at the weekly Troop meetings?
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Re: Older boys helping with meetings

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:08 pm

Quailman wrote:So you're saying it's acceptable to have 18 year-old guests at troop meetings. Do they need to be Eagles? What about 20 year-olds? 30 year-olds? I thought that when a person reached 18 they were considered adults as far as troops go. I did not tell them to leave. I simply asked the SM, who had invited them, to ask them to take YPT and register as ASMs. That's what my son did (he's fully trained). BTW, he didn't ask my son to help. BTW, the SM's son is in Venturing. The other aged out and is not registered.

The bigger issue here is that the PLC made plans for the meeting, and the SM brought two aged-out boys to take charge of it. IMO, older, active members of the troop should have been working with the younger ones. At the beginning of the meeting, a 15 year-old Eagle Scout with three palms was starting to work with one patrol. As I said, when he started to show a patrol how to set up their stove, the SM came over and said "Joseph will be in charge of this group." The Eagle Scout was basically pushed aside. He left the meeting early.


I have guests all the time. The last one was one of our Asst District Attorneys who came to help out with a 1st class requirement.

Your second paragraph is the Paul Harvey version I thought. Talking to the SM is probably the best way to handle it. Turning off troop members is not a good thing. Worrying over registered/non-registered is not as important.
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