New NYLT: "Patrols" vs. "Crews"

Administering the troop, solving problems, building on success, and using key program elements like the Patrol Method.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

New NYLT: "Patrols" vs. "Crews"

Postby Reasonable Rascal » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:43 pm

Our troop sent 4 boys to NYLT last week. One of the things they have told us since their return is that troops no longer have "patrols" but instead "crews." I understand the difference between a Venture Crew and a patrol within a troop. Is there a change in the wind or is this a misunderstanding on their part?

RR
Boys can save lives when Scouting first saves them.
Reasonable Rascal
Star
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Bullhead City - Las Vegas Area Council

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:15 pm

Since the word Patrol is used about 1000+ times in the syllabus, I highly suspect patrols are not going away any time soon. But if anyone has info to the contrary please post it
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby FrankJ » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:19 pm

It is either a misunderstanding on their or the course presenters part. NYLT nomenclature has been genericitized so not to confuse the Venture crew participants. So you have crews instead of patrols, course leaders rather than SPL Course directors rather than Scout Masters. The basic content is still the same. A little silly in my opinion since the vast number of attendees are still boy scouts & the venture crew attendees are typically a little older & a little more mature. (In case of the young women, a lot more mature.) :o :)
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:41 pm

FrankJ ...I just noticed your "signature"..funny but you're a Counselor not a Councilor. :P
"Providing Quality Info One Paragraph At A Time"
smtroop168
Silver Palm
 
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: New Birth of Freedom Council Carlisle PA

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby razor_strop » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:03 pm

Maybe he's a councilor that's a counselor for the Law MB. :lol:
Last edited by razor_strop on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
razor_strop
Life
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:24 am

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby FrankJ » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:46 pm

No. Mom made go to engineering school because I don't spell no good. I got all the way through school and found out I still don't get to drive the train.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby Reasonable Rascal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:46 am

Ahh, now I understand. I was wondering what all the babble they were spouting was about. Generic terms because, as you say, there were Venture Scouts present as well.

I'm very old school and truthfully trying to keep up with all the changes. As a youth I did the old Forward program and also the JLITC through Philmont's Rayado program back in the day. There were Troops and Posts but no Teams, and Crews were something you found on the trails at Philmont. Coaches taught science or math or sociology in the off season, but they didn't lead Scouts.

RR
Boys can save lives when Scouting first saves them.
Reasonable Rascal
Star
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Bullhead City - Las Vegas Area Council

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:04 am

I believe that BSA has eliminated the Venture Scout Patrol. The only place Venture is now used is in Venturing
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby Quailman » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:37 am

I wonder if the instructors realize that their attempt to include the venturers through reference to crews was misunderstood by at least some of the scouts in this way.
Quailman
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:52 am
Location: Sam Houston Area Council, Spring, TX

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby lambeausam » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:28 am

Something that may be related...this was the first year that Venturers were at our council's NYLT.
lambeausam
Life
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby Reasonable Rascal » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:44 am

wagionvigil wrote:I believe that BSA has eliminated the Venture Scout Patrol. The only place Venture is now used is in Venturing


I got passed by again? Where does a troop direct its older Scouts to then? We had a free-standing Venture crew in our area but the boys all aged out and crew ceased to be.

RR
Boys can save lives when Scouting first saves them.
Reasonable Rascal
Star
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Bullhead City - Las Vegas Area Council

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby FrankJ » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:04 pm

You can still have a senior scout patrol that does more challenging things than rest of the troop. There are only a few things like girls and pistols that are limited to venturing crews.
Frank J.
Venturing Crew Adviser, Assistant Scout Master, Renegade Merit Badge Counselor
Owl-2 WB 92-49
Foothills District Atlanta Area Council
I never teach my pupils. I only attempt to provide the conditions in which they can learn.--Albert Einstein
FrankJ
Gold Palm
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:25 am
Location: Atlanta Area Council Foothills District

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby bnelso » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:28 pm

I am pretty sure that the Venture Patrol is still a valid name for the Senior Scout Patrol

Venture Patrol is in the relatively new 2010 Scoutmaster Handbook and in the 2009 Boy Scout Handbook and in the current SM Specific Syllabus
bnelso
First Class
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: Grand Canyon Council, AZ

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby Reasonable Rascal » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:26 am

This begets a new question then. Can a troop have a Venture Crew, as opposed to a Venture patrol composed of older Scouts? Or am I correct in understanding that a Venture Crew is a separately chartered entity entirely?

RR
Boys can save lives when Scouting first saves them.
Reasonable Rascal
Star
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Bullhead City - Las Vegas Area Council

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:37 am

Nope! If you want to use venture in your program form a crew. Venturing is the only area that venture and crew are used now. And that is a separate charter. I donot get it. Units want the advantages of Venturing but do not want to do it correctly. Venturing is coming to the jamboree in 2013 and those kids will be doing some awesome activities restricted just to them!
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby bnelso » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:36 am

The term Venturing crew is resurved for the Venturing program.

You cannot use it to designate a Boy Scout troop patrol of any age. They have Venture Patrols.

By the way, note the ING at the end.
bnelso
First Class
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: Grand Canyon Council, AZ

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby bnelso » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:59 am

wagionvigil wrote:Nope! If you want to use venture in your program form a crew. Venturing is the only area that venture and crew are used now. And that is a separate charter. I donot get it. Units want the advantages of Venturing but do not want to do it correctly. Venturing is coming to the jamboree in 2013 and those kids will be doing some awesome activities restricted just to them!


Other than name and green shirt what advantages? A Venture Patrol can do almost everything a Venturing Crew can do.

But your right, if you want to look and organize yourself like a Venturing Crew, then jump in and be a Venturing Crew. I think the problem is that most Troops don't want to lose their experienced Jr. Leaders and I really can't blame them.
bnelso
First Class
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: Grand Canyon Council, AZ

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby WVBeaver05 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:35 pm

Quailman wrote:I wonder if the instructors realize that their attempt to include the venturers through reference to crews was misunderstood by at least some of the scouts in this way.

Starting this year NYLT has a change in terminology. The purpose is to focus on team development not on a specific program.

According to the DRAFT syllabus that I have and our Council course (that I only attended for 3 of the days), the terminology should have been Team rather than Patrol or Crew.

My opinion is that this is effort that unnecessarily complicates things (and it clearly confuses some participants). Not sure why they went with this major change rather than including a brief explanation (as is done in Wood Badge) that we recognize different programs are represented but that for most of the course the Boy Scout Patrol method will be modeled....

YiS
Wayne

Scoutmaster Troop34
Roundtable Commissioner
Eagle Scout - 1973
Wood Badge Beaver - 2005
WVBeaver05
Bronze Palm
 
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:17 am
Location: Buckskin Council - WV

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:40 pm

bnelso wrote:
wagionvigil wrote:Nope! If you want to use venture in your program form a crew. Venturing is the only area that venture and crew are used now. And that is a separate charter. I donot get it. Units want the advantages of Venturing but do not want to do it correctly. Venturing is coming to the jamboree in 2013 and those kids will be doing some awesome activities restricted just to them!


Other than name and green shirt what advantages? A Venture Patrol can do almost everything a Venturing Crew can do.

But your right, if you want to look and organize yourself like a Venturing Crew, then jump in and be a Venturing Crew. I think the problem is that most Troops don't want to lose their experienced Jr. Leaders and I really can't blame them.

Ya better check all the Current Literature and make sure A venture patrol is still there. I heard it was being removed. And if it is removed it means you cannot use that term anymore.
Also what color loops does your Venture Patrol wear? Not the venturing green ones I hope. if so remove them as they are not for that.
Lets see? Girls, pistols, Advancement until age 21 for a few
NER Area 4 COPE/Climbing Chairman
NE Area 4 Venturing Chairman
"If You Ain't a Bear, You're a Meal!"
wagionvigil
Counselor
 
Posts: 5457
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:01 am
Location: Westmoreland-Fayette Council BSA

Re: Patrols vs. "Crews"

Postby bnelso » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:05 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Ya better check all the Current Literature and make sure A venture patrol is still there. I heard it was being removed. And if it is removed it means you cannot use that term anymore.

Did check the latest Boy Scout Handbook and latest SM Handbook and Venture Patrols are in both.
Also what color loops does your Venture Patrol wear? Not the venturing green ones I hope. if so remove them as they are not for that.

No, they wear the Boy Scout green ones.

Lets see? Girls, pistols, Advancement until age 21 for a few


Not a big draw, at least I haven't seen it and if it was we would have a lot more Venturing crews.
bnelso
First Class
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: Grand Canyon Council, AZ

Next

Return to Troop Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests