When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:21 pm

One of their reasons for "dismissing" me is because I am making posts in this forum about their, in my personal opinion, "dysfunctional" troop.

This is second-hand information from a trusted source.
Last edited by kc9901mom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby Quailman » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:33 pm

kwildman wrote:...In scouts, it is ultimately the right of the charter organization to determine who may volunteer for positions. My experience is that the CO/COR will not go against the wishes of the Troop Committee. Just like most Troop Committees wont go against the SM. The troop committee should have had their chair give the dismissal.


I agree with all of that, especially the last sentence. The fact that the SM did it tells me that he's probably running the committee.

Let me change that - In MOST cases, the CO will approve what the CC recommends and the CC will stand by the SM, but if they do it blindly then they're just puppets.

I was appointed CC beginning in January and needed to get rid of the AC. The COR insisted on doing it, but somehow didn't communicate it properly so the AC became even harder to deal with.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby White Bear » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:07 pm

A bit new here, but been doing Scouting for awhile (US & International). From what I've read here I see a lot of finger pointing and name calling. Not much effort to attempt to fix the problem with in the confines of the Boy Scouting program.

99.9999999% of the time, a Scoutmaster will only 'dismiss' (kc's word) a volunteer with the consensus of the Committee Chair and Charter Organization Representive. If/when those three agree, it is best to grow up and accept it.

KC, you mention earlier an issue with another troop forcing you to find a new troop. And now you are having issues with this troop. Will it be better at the next one? Or the one after that?

Perhaps the issue is not with the troops and how they conduct themselves. Perhaps the issue is closer than you want to admit.

All too often I see parents (myself included) attempting to "Scout by proxy," that is to say, have scouting experiences though/with your son. My time as a Scout in the 1980's was AWESOME! I want my boys to have the same experience, and when I find the troop lacking in what I 'think' should be happening I ask my wife for her input (she's a saint....mostly for my BS). If she says NO. Then no it is.

Scouting can - and is - stressful to a 12 year old boy. Mom and Dad were there every step of the way in Cub Scouts. Making sure everyone got everything, boo-boo's taken care of, and that everyone gets a trophy. BOY Scouting is about THE BOY. And his ability to grow into an up-standing, contributing, member of society.

The boys cannot soar with Eagles if they have Helicopter parents in the way.

I say, bring the boy to scouts next week, then go do something else during that time. Change the oil, play Angry Birds, grocery shop, pray, anything that takes your mind off of what is/isn't going on between you and your son's troop leadership.

Don't sacrifice your children's scouting experiences because adults can't work and at nice with each other
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:31 pm

I thought I was a Committee Member too (I will be calling the service center tomorrow to find out though just so I know for my own personal benefit). We didn't go to Monday's meeting. I wasn't feeling well and my boys' camped two weekends in a row. I guess the Committee took advantage and voted me out because of me posting in this forum.

We left our last Troop voluntarily because of some of the same issues. White Bear - please read some of my other posts. I have admitted that I am not totally innocent. I have made mistakes and I have learned from those mistakes. I am a rookie as far as experience goes (with the Boy Scout program) but I am taking action to do the training. I have admitted that maybe I need to seek "professional" help because I have issues with "double standards" especially in an organization where adult volunteers are supposed to uphold the Scout Oath and Law (and don't or have not towards me in this troop and in my previous troop - in my personal opinion).

Just because a troop has been doing something one way for "x" number of years doesn't mean that "their" way is the most efficient or works for the new scouts that join the Troop.

I hope that maybe there is a "right" troop in my area who runs the scouting program according to BSA standards, policies, procedures, rules, and by-laws. I am willing to accept a troop's short-comings to a point for the benefit of my boys. And if there isn't a troop in my area then maybe a new Troop needs to be born.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby FrankJ » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:39 am

In the actual scheme of things, the Committee chair holds the hire/fire authority along with the charter org rep & the ultimate decision belongs to the charter org executive. For most units, the charter org executive is not involved in the day to day operations & is going to expect the unit leadership to solve their own problems. The SM cannot hire/fire anybody. He can be the messenger & a smart committee chair is going to way heavily the SM's wishes. The committee can vote, but ultimately it is the committee chairs decision. This is not a democracy.

Since it is a lot simpler to just not recharter somebody, most of the time people are just dropped at recharter rather than official notification to council. So your council may be unaware that you have been dropped from the unit. The council also does not get a say on the issue.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby FieldSports » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:22 pm

One of the greatest things about scout troops: You can leave and start your own unit. This is true diversity and democracy in action. Most of all, success is the best revenge. Go for it!!! :D :D :D

As a commissioner, wise old owl, etc. I have offered the above advise many times.

A couple of rules:
Do not pilfer, bad mouth, or cause harm. :evil:
Go out and make the unit that you so strongly believe in.
Find like minded youth and adults.
Recruit at school, office, and church.
Bring more into the BSA fold and you will truely be a hero.
Whining about past injustice and treatment is not allowed.
You are the example now for change.
Go get trained and have all leaders (youth and adults trained)

Good luck.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby scoutaholic » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:23 am

kc9901mom wrote:I thought I was a Committee Member too ... I guess the Committee took advantage and voted me out because of me posting in this forum...


And how did they know you are posting on this forum? Your full name is not easily accessible. Your council is not listed. I don't remember you being specific with names or unit numbers that you were talking about. These posts could be from just about anyone.

A troop that is functioning properly should be able to work through issues like this rather than "dismiss" it's members. Few people are so hard to work with that the problem can't be solved without weakening the troop.

It sounds to me like there are way too many egos involved in this troop.

Officially, the SM and CC don't get to hire/fire anyone. That is up to the CO, and by extension, the COR. In reality, many units don't have regular involvement with the COR. In many cases the CC will do the hiring/firing even though they don't really have that authority. The SM should never have the firing authority, and he should never think that he has that authority. The SM reports to the committee. His job it to work directly with the youth leadership to teach them how to run the troop.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kwildman » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:12 am

I would recommend letting this one go... if you pursue it at the district or council levels you are likely to create more problems for yourself. I can tell you that districts talk to the units and the districts talk with the council. Squeaky wheels dont always get greased and you dont want the reputation as a trouble maker. Better to just accept that this one didnt work and move on which is what you were already planning. I hope you find a troop that meets your kids needs.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:56 pm

White Bear wrote:From what I've read here I see a lot of finger pointing and name calling. Not much effort to attempt to fix the problem with in the confines of the Boy Scouting program.

BOY Scouting is about THE BOY. And his ability to grow into an up-standing, contributing, member of society.

Don't sacrifice your children's scouting experiences because adults can't work and at nice with each other


1. I have not called anyone names nor have I pointed any fingers. I have not been direspectful or demeaning in any manner. I have not said anything that I wouldn't say to these people's faces in my children's troop.

2. I have put forth effort to try to "fix" the dysfunctions of this troop within the confines of the Boy Scouting Program. I have expressed my concerns to the adult leaders in charge (SM and ASMs) based upon my personal observations of troop meetings and my children's complaints about troop meetings. My concerns were and have been expressed in a private manner for the most part. When it became apparent that this troop's leadership was not interested in changing anything even if the proposed changes could benefit the troop then I stopped providing my ideas altogether and left everything alone. I have not ever disrupted a troop meeting or function. I have not been verbally "abusive" to any of the adult leaders. I have not misrepresented myself nor have I acted on behalf of the troop as a troop committee member (a position that I held with a previous troop and that I was sure that I had transferred to this troop) in an official manner.

3. I am fully aware of what the boy scouting program is about.

4. I am, was, and have been nice to the adult troop leadership. They are the ones who have not been so nice to me in my opinion.
Last edited by kc9901mom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:18 pm

scoutaholic wrote:And how did they know you are posting on this forum? Your full name is not easily accessible. Your council is not listed. I don't remember you being specific with names or unit numbers that you were talking about. These posts could be from just about anyone.

It sounds to me like there are way too many egos involved in this troop.


"They" know I am posting in this forum because I was a fool in selecting my username and also the present Troop Committee Chair is a member of this forum. (I just found out).

I agree. Too many egos and Scouters making up their versions of BSA Rules, Policies and Procedures is in my opinion the reason BSA Membership numbers are down.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:24 pm

FieldSports wrote:One of the greatest things about scout troops: You can leave and start your own unit. This is true diversity and democracy in action. Most of all, success is the best revenge. Go for it!!! :D :D :D

As a commissioner, wise old owl, etc. I have offered the above advise many times.

A couple of rules:
Do not pilfer, bad mouth, or cause harm. :evil:
Go out and make the unit that you so strongly believe in.
Find like minded youth and adults.
Recruit at school, office, and church.
Bring more into the BSA fold and you will truely be a hero.
Whining about past injustice and treatment is not allowed.
You are the example now for change.
Go get trained and have all leaders (youth and adults trained)

Good luck.


Thank you FieldSports for the positive encouragement and the rules. :D
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby biglou » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:47 pm

Houston! We have a problem. I can't believe something that I started a long time ago was still here.

One thing I did glance over real quick was that the Scoutmaster gave a letter of dismissal. I know the Scoutmaster can't do that. He doesn't have that power. Another thing that I glanced at was let this one go and find a new Troop.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Y'all keep telling me the same things (and I am thankful that people with a lot more experience are offering their advice :D ):

1. The Scoutmaster can't do that.
2. Find a new troop.

There is more to the letter that y'all won't believe either but that is for a later discussion.

I'm here to tell that yes I did receive a letter from the Scoutmaster and signed by the scoutmaster stating that I was no longer allowed to participate in Troop meetings, fund raisers, or any outdoor activities.

I have asked my kids if they want to go to a new troop and they said no. I have planted the seed of dual enrollment in their mind. I have been pointing out the benefits of dual enrollment.

I have :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: rising up inside me. I will play by their rules with a smile on my face. This is all I am saying for now.
Last edited by kc9901mom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby White Bear » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:18 pm

Two troops in two years? The same problems? The problem is not with the troops or their leadership.......

take a minute to ponder that one.


Take a break.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:42 pm

It is not unheard of for scouts/scouters to change packs, troops, teams, or crews 2 or more times because of issues whatever they might be. I have had general conversations with parents and scouters from other Councils who have said that it isn't unheard of for people to leave units and sometimes it takes a few times to find the unit where the scout/parent "fit".
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby Mrw » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:51 am

In the 15 or so years I have been with our troop, I know maybe 7 kids that transferred troops due to reasons other than the family moving.

Three of them went to a new troop one of our ASMs wanted to start that was planning on a slightly different program focus. One went to a troop slightly farther from home, but at his church. One had moved a few years before and the troop change happened years later as he was getting flack for planning an Eagle project. One was a boy conflict within the troop and the final was a parent conflict within the troop.

So do troop changes happen, yes. Are they "common" and typical? Probably not so much.

I am not trying to be critical as I do NOT know you and text communication loses so much of the tone and context of face to face discussion. But you have come across here as being overly self-righteous and over-bearing. And your posts do sound like there has been plenty of finger pointing and name calling going on among the adults.

I wish you and yours the best in your lives and your boys' scouting time. My advice is to fade into the background and let them enjoy it. If they are complaining about boring meetings and such, then encourage them to get involved as youth leaders in their troop or patrol and help to change it. But this needs to be something THEY do by themselves and it will make them awesome people to work with and for as they go into the world on their own.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby ronin718 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:10 am

kc9901mom wrote:Y'all keep telling me the same things (and I am thankful that people with a lot more experience are offering their advice :D ):

1. The Scoutmaster can't do that.
2. Find a new troop.

There is more to the letter that y'all won't believe either but that is for a later discussion.

I'm here to tell that yes I did receive a letter from the Scoutmaster and signed by the scoutmaster stating that I was no longer allowed to participate in Troop meetings, fund raisers, or any outdoor activities.

I have asked my kids if they want to go to a new troop and they said no. I have planted the seed of dual enrollment in their mind. I have been pointing out the benefits of dual enrollment.

I have :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: rising up inside me. I will play by their rules with a smile on my face. This is all I am saying for now.

It seems to me the boys are happy, so the only reason I see for you to find a new troop is parent-driven, not boy-driven. You're unhappy, I get that. But Scouting is not about the parent.

Step out of the picture. Let your husband be the family face in the troop. Attend the CoH and other recognition events, support your sons without being critical or inserting yourself into the fray, and let time sauve the wounds. The china shop is in need of repairs, let others clean up the mess.

If you need to stay involved in Scouting, go talk to the District folks. I'm sure they could use help at Roundtable.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby kc9901mom » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:38 pm

Mrw wrote:But you have come across here as being overly self-righteous and over-bearing. And your posts do sound like there has been plenty of finger pointing and name calling going on among the adults.


Please elaborate on how I have called names :? . Maybe I have pointed fingers but I have also pointed fingers at myself.

I go to the weekly troop meetings. I sit inside in a chair usually at the back of the room or next to the door at the back of the room. I only speak if I am asked a question by another adult or if I have a question (even then I do not interrupt the meeting - I wait until the parents are invited to speak or until after the meeting). The reason I go and sit inside is because my children do not pay attention to what is being said. When the meeting is over, we leave unless my kids have business to conduct after the meeting such as SM Conference, BOR, applications getting signed, etc. My kids do that and I am present in the room (except for BOR) but I say nothing and do nothing. How is that overbearing (an honest question)?
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:18 pm

kc9901mom wrote:The reason I go and sit inside is because my children do not pay attention to what is being said.

I do not understand why that requires you to attend meetings.

It sounds like you are being the "safety net" for your sons inattention. You can not continue to do this for them the rest of their lives. At some point they will need to fly, or fall, on their own.

I suggest letting normal cause, and effect, help your sons to hone their own attention skills. If they do not pay attention, and miss out on an activity, or advancement, etc, because of it, that might encourage them to try harder to pay attention, and to develop skills, and methods to help themselves (ie: note taking, recording devices, etc).

When they know that you are always there to "remember" for them, what incentive do they have to learn to do it on their own?

And, yes, I do know how hard it can be for all of you. My son is ADHD, and would forget his head if it were not attached. I had to physically force him to focus on me (turning his head so he was looking directly at me) when I told him something. Even with that, and repeating what he was told back, he would still lose half of it not five minutes later. Part of growing up is learning coping skills so you can succeed on your own.
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Re: When the Troop Committee decides not to play nice!

Postby Mrw » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:35 pm

kc9901mom wrote:
Mrw wrote:But you have come across here as being overly self-righteous and over-bearing. And your posts do sound like there has been plenty of finger pointing and name calling going on among the adults.


Please elaborate on how I have called names :? . Maybe I have pointed fingers but I have also pointed fingers at myself.

I go to the weekly troop meetings. I sit inside in a chair usually at the back of the room or next to the door at the back of the room. I only speak if I am asked a question by another adult or if I have a question (even then I do not interrupt the meeting - I wait until the parents are invited to speak or until after the meeting). The reason I go and sit inside is because my children do not pay attention to what is being said. When the meeting is over, we leave unless my kids have business to conduct after the meeting such as SM Conference, BOR, applications getting signed, etc. My kids do that and I am present in the room (except for BOR) but I say nothing and do nothing. How is that overbearing (an honest question)?


Like I said before writing that, text only communications often lose the nuances that convey much of the meaning in what is being said.

You have come across as a bit over-bearing to me in text. Regardless, I see this as a good time for you to step back and let your boys start going forth on their own. Like Nuts4Scouts just said, if they do not listen and miss something, maybe they will learn to bring a pen and notebook and write stuff down.

My "baby" is 23 and looking for his first "big boy" job after college (his term, not mine). It is really hard for me to not be trying to take charge of what he is doing and chasing after him every day to ensure he does what I think is the right things to do. So I really do get how hard it is to let them go and work it out themselves. But I also can see how much he learned about living and managing on his own by my allowing him to make those mistakes and grow from them during his scouting years.

I am AC for our troop, but I think they are happiest to keep me around because it is easier for nervous new moms to get a pat on the back from me as we teach them the difference between Cubs and Scouts than from one of the men who are ASM's.

I hope you come to peace with this and your boys learn to soar.
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