SM Conferences

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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:07 am

kwildman wrote:after 2nd class rank - we make our boys responsible for getting their BOR done. They must contact at least 3 committee members and coordinate a time for their review. We do this to put the responsibility on them and also so that they have more interaction with other adults in the Troop. We will not grant a SM conference until the BOR is complete.


Can't do this for EBORs. Scouts have no input to the board membership. ACPP Pg 30
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:11 am

RWSmith wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:You don't need 2 deep leadership for SMCs.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, here...

If the Scoutmaster's Conference (SMC) is conducted at a Scouting activity (i.e., Troop meeting, Camp-out, Summer Camp, etc.), then Youth Protection (YPT) rules, namely, "No one-one-one contact" still applies. While the SMC should obviously be conducted between one Unit Leader (SM*/ASM) and one Scout at a time, it must still be conducted "in the view of others" and, thus, 2DL would be necessary.

quote]

Agree...a SMC is like a MBC session....others in the area. I use 2DL for "events" so probably just symantics
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby cballman » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:57 am

Also if all the requriments are met then you can procede with a BOR. Problem with a statement made earlier was that after a BOR then a SMC. CANT HAPPEN. SMC Requirment must be signed before BOR.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby kwildman » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:29 am

Brain fart... yes we do not do a BOR without a SM Conf. Not sure what i was thinking (or not thinking).
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:37 am

:twisted:
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby scoutaholic » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:54 am

wagionvigil wrote:The advancement book that smtroop168 quotes is a must have for any troop

http://www.troop701.com/pdf/Guides/Scoutmaster%20Conference%20Training.pdf


There is good information in that document. I hadn't seen it before. You may also find this useful.

I run a website, and a not-so-regular scouting eZine. There was a feature article in the eZine a while back entitled "Scoutmaster Conferences: What’s that? Who needs it? How do I do it?". You may find it useful. It is too long to post here, but there is an archive of the article on the website at http://www.scoutaholic.com/archive.php?CatID=1&ArtID=26. You have to be a registered site user to see the archive, but that is free and instant, so should be pretty easy for you. (http://www.scoutaholic.com/NewAccount.php).
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby ThunderingWind » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:16 pm

scoutaholic wrote:There is good information in that document. I hadn't seen it before. You may also find this useful.

I run a website, and a not-so-regular scouting eZine. There was a feature article in the eZine a while back entitled "Scoutmaster Conferences: What’s that? Who needs it? How do I do it?". You may find it useful. It is too long to post here, but there is an archive of the article on the website at http://www.scoutaholic.com/archive.php?CatID=1&ArtID=26. You have to be a registered site user to see the archive, but that is free and instant, so should be pretty easy for you. (http://www.scoutaholic.com/NewAccount.php).
Thank you.
Last edited by ThunderingWind on Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:23 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Can't do this for EBORs. Scouts have no input to the board membership. ACPP Pg 30


Interesting. I see that's a new 2008 addition. Fortunately for #1, his DE was apparently using an old edition ;-). He "strongly suggested" the board be made up of at least three of the following - an elected official, a DE, a CE, someone representing the interests of the troop, and someone who had known him for a substantial amount of time (no relatives). His review took over an hour. I was very pleased to see the people he chose for the review were men who he knew would grill him rather than simply pass him through. The DE approved his choices before he asked them to serve. Probably overkill, but he's the troop's first Eagle, the District's first of the year, and only the fourth in the Council this year. We had a fantastic DE who helped #1 every step of the way, even putting in a substantial number of hours for the build.

Do you think that is why the change? Scouts were choosing gimmes? :-( Who now chooses? The Advancement Chair? The committee? #2 will be ready late this year.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby scoutaholic » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:26 pm

AquilaNegra2 wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:Can't do this for EBORs. Scouts have no input to the board membership. ACPP Pg 30


Interesting. I see that's a new 2008 addition. ... Who now chooses? The Advancement Chair? The committee? ...


I've never seen a boy put together his own board. I guess nobody ever thought that they could. However, if a boy had a particular person that he wanted to serve on his board, I don't see that it would be a problem to ask that person to join the board.

Around here, the EBOR board has always been arranged by the troop committee chairman or the troop advancement chairperson (when such a person exists and is willing to do their job). The council sends the paperwork to the district advancement chairman who then assigns someone from his committee to schedule the board. The district advancement committee person then contacts the troop committee chair (as shown on the eagle application). The committee chair is in charge of getting a date that works for everyone, reserving a room at the church where the board is to take place, and arranging people to sit on the board. The district committee person comes at the appointed time/place and joins with 3-4 people arranged by the troop to sit on the board.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby RWSmith » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:44 pm

kwildman wrote:after 2nd class rank - we make our boys responsible for getting their BOR done. They must contact at least 3 committee members and coordinate a time for their review. We do this to put the responsibility on them and also so that they have more interaction with other adults in the Troop.


Yeah, this has come up here before... But, it is solely the SM's responsibilty for requesting a BOR, not the Scout's. At the very most, the Scout and the SM can approach the designated MC (typically, this is the Troop's Advancement chair; but, there should be alternates) together. Or, they can contact the first three MCs they can find. (A good reason to have three MCs at Troop meetings.) But, again, it is the SM's responsibility to get it setup and the committee's responsibility to get it DONE, as soon as practically possible.

Also, a Scout can request (or, even the SM can send a Scout before) a BOR at anytime! He does not have to be ready to advance! I.e., He may want an informal practice run, or advice. Or, the SM can send him in for a discipline issue, for example.

There was a really, really good Supplemental Training module on SMCs at Scouting.org; but, alas, the links (on their website) are broken... Probably because they haven't re-written it, yet.

I tried to upload a copy here (and on the wiki); but it's too large... 2.6Mb. You can get it here:

Scoutmaster Conference, Supplemental Training Module, BSA No. 18-629

CAVEAT: This file is a couple of years old and is currently UNAVAILABLE at Scouting.org... possibly, due to a pending re-write to account for recent changes in advancement policies. Nonetheless, it remains an excellent resource--just keep any potential policy changes in mind.

==============================

UPDATE: Links at Scouting.Org have been fixed...

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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby AquilaNegra2 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:56 pm

Thanks RW. I'm the (new) Advancement Chair, and I didn't realize it was the SM who was supposed to request it. We have been having the boys do it themselves.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby Mrw » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:54 am

We keep a running list of boys who have requested SMC's and when they finish that, he sends them to add their name to the BOR list.

The timing part of this is not working well, but we have a very good idea of who needs attention.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby RWSmith » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:09 pm

Reply to myself...
RWSmith wrote:....it is the SM's responsibility to get it setup and the committee's responsibility to get it DONE, as soon as practically possible. It is the Scout's responsibility to "Be prepared" for a BOR (for Advancement).

Also, a Scout can request (or, even the SM can send a Scout before) a BOR at anytime! He does not have to be ready to advance! I.e., He may want an informal practice run, or advice. Or, the SM can send him in for a discipline issue, for example.

And, what's the best for a BOR that's not for advancement?... Well, that's it!... What? Because is he is not advancing? A BOR for a Scout who has not advanced in rank? The TC would be wise to setup BORs for Scouts who are not advancing. That's the flip-side of the same coin of the board's primary job!!! To find out Scout "A" is not advancing. BORs aren't just for reviewing the Scout's progress, but also a Scout's lack of progress! What's wrong? Where's the problem? Think about it... The BOR also looks at the program, from the Scout's perspective--through his eyes! E.g., if a Scout has been at First Class for eight months, wouldn't he be due for a BOR--whether he's prepared to advance, or not?! The Troop Committee, by use of BORs, needs to find out why any Scout is not advancing, and set about fixing it! It doesn't matter who, what, when, where, or why... Is it one or more of the ULs? The PLC? Are his parents supportive of his Scouting involvement? Or, is it the Scout? Even though the decision is ultimately his, there's ALWAYS something we can do to help.

There was a really, really good Supplemental Training module on SMCs at Scouting.org; but, alas, the links (on their website) are broken... Probably because they haven't re-written it, yet. I tried to upload a copy here (and on the wiki); but it's too large... 2.6Mb. You can get it here:

Scoutmaster Conference, Supplemental Training Module, BSA No. 18-629

CAVEAT: This file is a couple of years old and is currently UNAVAILABLE at Scouting.org... possibly, due to a pending re-write to account for recent changes in advancement policies. Nonetheless, it remains an excellent resource--just keep any potential policy changes in mind.

Again, I cannot over-emphasize the value of the above file. I will try to get up on the wiki.

In the meantime, if you want me to e-mail you a copy, just drop me an e-mail.

==============================

UPDATE: Links at Scouting.Org have been fixed...

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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby Cowboy » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:44 pm

Is there really a hard and fast rule by BSA? We run it both ways: A Scout who is advancing first goes to the SM to schedule a SMC. He then immediately contacts one or several TC members to convene a BOR immediately after the scheduled SMC. A Scout who is not advancing: The SM contacts a TC Member and asks them to arrange a BOR for that Scout. We have also had a situation where the Scout Masters Committee has instructed the TC to hold BORs for all Star & Life Scouts as they were not progressing. FYI: The SM Committee is made up of all ASM's and the Advancement Coordinators. We use the time in SM Comm. to coordinate our schedules and identify any issues that need to be addressed at the TC or Troop levels. As we all spend a lot of time on the road, we need to have a chance to touch base without all of the distractions that are found at outings and day to day issues of the TC.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby Nuts4Scouts » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:13 pm

BOR's are not just to review the boy.

One of the functions of a BOR is to review the Troop. To "police" the program and it's leaders.

That is one of the reasons that SM and ASM are not allowed on a BOR.

If you have a lot of boys who are not advanceing, chances are it is not the Scouts who are the problem, it is the Troop and it's program. Having the Scouts comfortable enough with the Committee members on a BOR to feel safe from retribution for telling them of any problems within the Troop is key.
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Re: Sm Conferences

Postby joat » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:22 pm

There is much confusion about YPT, no one-on-one contact, and two-deep leadership. YPT encompasses both on-on-one and two-deep. Two-deep leadership is required ONLY for trips and outings. It doe not apply to troop meetings, SM conferences, merit badge sessions, or anything else; ONLY trips and outings.

No one-on-one always applies. The third person can be anyone: parent, another kid, another adult leader.

Maybe the best thing to do is for the assistant Scoutmasters to continue the rest of the program during the summer as well. A few troop meetings, a couple campouts or outings, why not?
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