Graduation

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Graduation

Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 02, 2007 3:03 pm

Graduation is just around the corner for many "former" scouts. I use the word "former" as most have turned 18 during this senior year. Would it not be great if we could keep them active as a youth a bit longer? Instead of making them ASM and taking all the fun out of their outings. Well just to let you know there is a way and scoutmasters must learn not to be afraid of it. It is called Venturing and those ASM can all be youth again and work toward advancement awards until they are 21. I highly suggest different leadership for a Crew as it takes a very different mind set to allow the youth to be Totally in charge of the program and all activities.Remember these are young adults now and they must learn on their own. Take a look at the program and make a real effort o continue to provide scouting to these young men and women.
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Postby jr56 » Wed May 02, 2007 3:42 pm

I agree, Venturing is an underutilized program with alot of potential for growth.
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Postby ronin718 » Wed May 02, 2007 3:52 pm

Isn't a Venture Crew a completely different program as far as chartering goes? This entails the young men to leave their troop/friends/mentors.

Most of these young men who are graduating aren't going to be around for more than a few months, and likely aren't looking to establish connections to a new program. Perhaps this is something that could be encouraged to be addressed at their colleges.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 02, 2007 4:03 pm

This needs to be considered a natural progression much the same as Cubs to Scouts. Actually it needs to be a required progression at age 16.
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Postby Hubert » Wed May 02, 2007 4:55 pm

Venture Crews are amazing. I was in one, but the Crew folded under no activity and not re-chartering. Currently, my Troop is thinking about starting a new crew.

Is this a good idea, how hdifferent is a crew than just a troop? IN both terms from a youth leader and an adult. This way I can answer any questions asked.

Thanks!
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 02, 2007 5:11 pm

Simple in a Crew the Adult is there just to advise. They basicially have no say in anything. If the Troop starts acrew it must be its own charter with its own committee and advisers. A crew is operated much like an OA Lodge.
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Postby Hubert » Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 pm

OK. So then can adults double role? Can they be on both?

(Ive never been in the OA, I was voted in, but missed the first conclave due to a broken foot, I was on crutches and they said I couldnt go ((later found out i Could have)) and I missed the second due to personal reasons.)
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Postby Mrw » Thu May 03, 2007 8:39 am

Yes, adults can be troop leaders and crew advisors at the same time.

I did both for a short time when we tried to start a venture crew a few years ago. They had trouble recruiting kids to participate and my son, who was trying to lead the charge, decided that he could have more impact staying with the troop.
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Postby jr56 » Thu May 03, 2007 9:34 am

Actually, if the troop and crew are chartered by the same organization, they can share a committee, CO, and COR.
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Postby 9009scoutmaster » Thu May 03, 2007 12:07 pm

This needs to be considered a natural progression much the same as Cubs to Scouts. Actually it needs to be a required progression at age 16.[/quote]


Great idea but in will it work to require youth to leave troops and move to a Venture Crew when they turn 16. How many troops and packs fold because SM or CM leave and they have no other Adult Leaders to step foward. Charter organizations and unit committee do a great job but the vast majority of them do not step foward when the unit loses the adult Leadership that works with the youth on a weekend and weekout basis. The eazy job is getting the charter Organization the hard part is getting the Adult Leadership. In the area where my troop is located there used to be 10 to 12 troops serving the youth of our area now their is only one active troop, why no adults willing to step foward.

Getting a Charter organization is the eazy part, getting adults to make the commitment to the unit them doing that job is the hard part. We loose units because of no quailty adults to work with the youth not because of not being able to get the youth involved.
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Postby wagionvigil » Thu May 03, 2007 12:32 pm

LEts think a bit. We have this great High Adventure Program or a Program based upon Sailing or any number of other great service driven programs and we are not fully utilizing this. Most boys get Eagle before their 17th BD. Also how many are really leaders in the troop after they get Eagle? There are those that stick around and take part. When they turn 18 what can they do if they go to camp. Really nohing. So lets use the program and make it mandatory at some point in time. In Poland the Scouts/Venures are still active until 27 so their leaders are built in to the unit. AT least this is what I got from my conversation with the Polish group at the last two NJ's. I realize it take leaders but remember the Crew is nothing like a troop in leadership and meetings so it takes less adult committment. Take a look at the Scouts UK advancement Program. I am trying to set up a Venturing BASe at our Council Camp to utilize facilities and resourses in the Laurel Highlands of Western Pa. Of couse I am hitting a wal but it is weakening. I suggest that all Troop Leaders attend a Powder Horn Course and se what Venturing is all about. Oh MTW that training WILL help with the troop. Believe me .
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Postby 9009scoutmaster » Thu May 03, 2007 12:55 pm

Thank you for advise. Oldest youth in troop will only be finnishing the 6th grade in 2 weeks. We start back to school first of August. We need a venture crews in area. This is and area we will have to start looking into as our youth start getting older to help keep them in the scouting movement. What I hear it is a great program.

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Postby wagionvigil » Thu May 03, 2007 1:03 pm

9009 Look for a Powder Horn Course it is nothing Like WB. N Ticket no mind games just lots of fun. At our course last fall we did
Horseback Riding
Caving in a Cave
SCUBA in a pool
Sailing on a lake
kayaking on a Lake
GPS
Land Nav Compass and Stars
Backpacking
Rifle ,Shotgun,Pistol (38 and 357) Air Pistol, muzzel Loader
Archery
Fly Fishing
Hunting Safety
Ecology
On and On all instructed by Experts in the Field. WE had the Asst Laboratory DIrector from Goddard do Stars and Compass.
We had Ian Rosenberger from Survivor to do working with teens.
Mountaineering was done by a fellow from the Explorers club that has climbed just about everything but Everest.
You do everything you are capable of doing and the main idea is getting resourses and having fun.
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Postby scouter01 » Sat May 05, 2007 8:44 pm

wagionvigil wrote:This needs to be considered a natural progression much the same as Cubs to Scouts. Actually it needs to be a required progression at age 16.


I don't think so, some poeple are ready for high adventure stuff earlier than others.
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Postby wagionvigil » Sat May 05, 2007 9:04 pm

Age rules for Venturing Age 14 and Finished grade 8. Both requirements must be met!
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Postby scouter01 » Tue May 08, 2007 8:07 pm

im saying some poeple might not be interested, plus a 13 year old isn't always the best spl.... ( can be fine but if they were the only ones since everyone older than 13 was in venturing......)
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Re: Graduation

Postby koholintscout » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:27 am

I respectfully disagree that Venturing should be considered another stage in Scouting and made mandatory for a couple of reasons:

1) Pulling older boys away from the Boy Scouting program can hurt local troops:
a) I feel that the whole point of Scouting totally changes once you get into the higher ranks and you have mandated leadership time. Once you hit Star, you go from primarily focusing on technical skills to figuring out who you are as a leader. By this point in most Troops, I imagine that the boys are the more senior group of people and thus are given more responsibility over the troop. In contrast, Venturing Crew age bylaws mean that most Boy Scouts who opt for Venturing will all of a sudden find themselves closer to the bottom of the totem pole and not able to take up the reins of primary leadership in the unit.
b) Younger boys need to be able to look up to older boys and see them come to meetings and interact with them on a regular basis. They need role models and the older boys need to learn how to be good role models.

2) Kids go to college away from where they live. Again, since Venturing extends the period of "youth" designation, all the top leaders will probably be college age and thus this serves as a penalty for those kids who opt to go to college away from where they live. Those people who are college age and still have the "youth" designation that are close to home can continue on and serve as senior leadership while those kids who leave will not get the chance.

3) The way Scouts fits into most people's lives is that it is just one of several activities. It can be the main activity, sure, but in my experience Scouts have their hands in everything and once they hit high school Scouts tend to be the ones that like to do a lot of activities. Forcing an intensification of Scouting will have the adverse effect of making it a bigger time commitment, which will turn boys away from Scouting as they get older and it will rob the community of those boys who already have good leadership experience from leading other organizations and influencing those outside of scouts.

4) Making Venturing the "next step" means that girls will probably have to be allowed to join Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, which I have to oppose because in my experience and sort of how I see society:
a) Too many boys these days are going through life without solid male role models, and this matters. This matters a lot. I understand, appreciate and thank those women leaders who make such a great difference in Boys' lifes through Scouting, I really do. If they are the only ones that have the sense of commitment to be the Scoutmaster, or if they are the best qualified, then so be it. The boy leadership will (hopefully) be enough to show the younger boys who lack male role models what it means to be a man. What disturbs me is the prospect of boys not having solid male role models with Crew Presidents and Advisors both being female. The opposite is absolutely true as well, but I feel that this is a lesser problem (see next subpoint).
b) Boys need a place to go to just be boys and not make excuses for it. The schools these days are miserable at allowing boys to be boys, from elementry school to high school the behavior of average guys is not acceptable to a lot of teachers. In addition, the pre-teen years are hard on all genders, and relations with the other gender are pretty hard to get down right and for some this is a phase that lasts years. Guys just need a place to be guys without regard for whatever society says they have to be, which is getting increasingly hard.

That's just my opinion. I have never been in a Venture Crew, but I was a Boy Scout for seven years and became fairly insturmental in the growth of my troop back home. I count my time as a two-term SPL and the effect I noticed I had in achieving my Eagle as key developments in who I have become. Both were essential to my success in my senior year of high school in leadership positions I had, and for my appointment to and continued success here at the Military Academy.
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Re: Graduation

Postby kwildman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:47 am

Venturing is just more scouting and actually enhances the troop if done correctly. What do you do with your older scouts now? What keeps them in after eagle? Venturing is the perfect tool to deliver the "promise" of high adventure that we keep dangling in front of scouts. You need to learn more about the program. Sign up for Venturing Leader basic training and see what the program is about.
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Re: Graduation

Postby biglou » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:19 am

I am going to have to get on a soap box here before wagionvigil does.

I am going to respectfully disagree with koholintscout's comments about Venturing. The Venturing program is the most underused program that the BSA has. Venturing can be a wonderful thing if the program is used correctly.

1) Pulling older boys away from the Boy Scouting program can hurt local troops If anything, the Venturing program can help strengthen the Boy Scout and Cub Scout program. Most of the requirements in Venturing require the Venturers to teach their newly acquired skills. This also gives older Scouts a new opportunity as Venturers to do things that they could not do because they were Boy Scouts. Venturers can also finish their Eagle Scout Badge as long as they complete their First Class Rank. They have different leadership requirements that can be met. As for my crew, it has strengthened my Troop. We have boys sticking around because there is a new challenge for them. The younger boys are also impressed that there are GIRLS in the program and yes they are a good example for the younger boys too.

2) Kids go to college away from where they live. I agree with that. However, a Venture Crew can meet as often as they like. The Venturers can plan there activities well in advance of college breaks and schedules.

3) The way Scouts fits into most people's lives is that it is just one of several activities. Ok. I have Scouts that are active in just about everything. If they want to participate in Venturing, they will make time. My boys and girls do that. They have jobs and are involved in cheerleading, sports, band, and the school musical to name a few. I do not see what the problem is.

) Making Venturing the "next step" means that girls will probably have to be allowed to join Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, which I have to oppose because in my experience and sort of how I see society: I do not have a problem with girls being in the Venturing program. However, I still think that the girls need a place where the girls can be girls and the boys can be boys in the younger age groups. With the Venturing Program, the girls and the boys learn how to compromise and "sink or swim". I went to the Area IV Venture quest at Camp Bucoco last April. The kids planned the event and I thought it was very well run event. There were no problems. My boys that went still found time to do their thing. It was not a problem at all.

Venturing is the most underused program that the BSA has. Partly because of attitudes of people who are afraid of what might happen. I was in the Exploring program before the name change to Venturing in the early 90s. I had a blast then. The only problems was the lack of a structured program that Venturing has now. We went camping and hiking together and some of the girls outperformed the guys in our post. We had fun. Venturing can be a wonderful thing if you use it. There are plenty of resources out there. This program has to be promoted, period.

Wagionvigil can definitely do a better job than what I have with commenting on Venturing. I had to add my two cents worth.
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Re: Graduation

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:38 am

No you did quite well. Scouters are afraid of Venturing because they know in their heart that they are not meeting the needs of the older scout. Their ideas are to holdup advancement to keep them in the troop longer. That Only older Boys can be the SPL etc. But Older is relative maybe it is time to think of the 13/14 year old as older and let them lead.
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