(Split Post) Camouflage issue, again!

Answers, ideas, and suggestions on the stuff troops need.

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Postby don » Mon May 09, 2005 9:54 am

wagionvigil
Everyone (2 of us) that has posted on this has said that wearing camo is not the BSA uniform. Not sure why you have gotten so defensive?
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon May 09, 2005 9:57 am

I realize that. And I am not on the defense. Had a trining session awhile back and I am still reacting to that I guess.
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Postby OldGreyBear » Mon May 09, 2005 10:41 am

well. now that we are all aboard the peace train, I do have to say that if I saw an adult leader with full military camo and high black boots tucked and bloused with a similar attired troop, I would be the one wanting to hide.
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Postby Woodbadgegirl » Mon May 09, 2005 12:20 pm

Woodbadgegirl
Great Story thanks.


Oh you have my curiousity, what story?????? LOL!!
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Postby cballman » Mon May 09, 2005 12:29 pm

Now I pose another question when you say that a piece of camo is ok who makes the call to say what piece is ok? and what piece would be acceptable? If you let the boys make the call they would say camo is ok but IMHO we are a scout troop if you want to wear camo or other militery gear then you need to be in a ROTC group or the National Gaurd. if you want to be in Boy Scouts then you need the proper gear. if a football player showed up in camo would he be alowed to play? what if a baseball player showed up in camo would he be allowed to play? what if you were these kids coach what argument would you have to sit the kid down. NONE because you said camo was ok. now we are dealing with people and scouting here so this is my final take on this matter if we have a uniform for scouting then wear it. if you dont then try to adapt something to fit the occasion. if it comes down to camo then what would do if your kids teachers showed up to teach school in full camo? I see no difference. but that is my humble opinion.
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Postby Woodbadgegirl » Mon May 09, 2005 12:47 pm

Charlie,

Are we saying one boy could cause us to lose our charter if he wears Camo?

I went camping with the boys this weekend (My first one with the new troop and it was a blast) one boy did wear Camo shorts. I never knew of this policy!!!!
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon May 09, 2005 12:53 pm

First don't panic. National really does not have the guts to do it. Remember they are too worried about numbers. Units just need to say we do not allow it point blank. Our Lodge has started this with OA weekends. And it has started to carry over into the units. We still have at least two units that are full camo. they have been warned.
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Postby commish3 » Mon May 09, 2005 1:24 pm

Camo is not strictly military garb. Like other types of outdoor clothing it has its purposes. Hunters are not military and they use camo, right. The key is education. Teach scouts to dress appropriately for the activity. The purpose of camo is to reduce your visibility. from a safety aspect that is not something a scout should be trying to do during scout activities.

But what if they were playing capture the flag? Would you ban camo from such an activity. I see no need to do that.

What I find worse than scouts wearing what could be seen as military wear and acting like scouts are scout leaders who wear the BSA uniform and act as if they ran a miliotaryt unit.

That is what is offensive and that is what the BSA is trying to avoid by saying that the uniform is not to imitate a military uniform.


TRIVIA TIME!!
If the BSA uniform is not to imitate a military uniform then explain Sea Scouting! The Sea Scout not only can be the official Navy uniform but the Sea Scout Manual gives you the instructions for purchasing it from the U.S. Navy. Why does that not violate the congressional charter? (and it doesn't)
Last edited by commish3 on Mon May 09, 2005 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon May 09, 2005 1:56 pm

Capture the Flag? Thats a total other Thread
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Postby JazerNorth » Mon May 09, 2005 2:56 pm

RWSmith wrote:BSA Rules and Regulations -- Article X, Section 4. INSIGNIA, UNIFORMS and BADGES

Clause 4. Prohibition of Alteration or Imitation
    (a) No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as described in the official publications, or the rules and regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local Council or any local executive board or committee, except the National Executive Board after consideration by the Program Group Committee.

    (b). Imitation of United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps or Air Force uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of Act of Congress, approved June 3, 1916.


For those who need a definition of a Military Uniform, see the following links:
Army ==> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyreg/l/blar6701.htm
Air Force ==>http://usmilitary.about.com/od/afreg/l/blafi362903.htm
Navy ==> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navyregs ... s15665.htm

It takes quite a bit of stuff to make someone be in Military Uniform. It is also Illegal (Federal Law) to be in Military Uniform unless you are/were in the Military (see http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorder ... rmwear.htm).

Remember, read the above links before you start ripping this post apart. You will learn more than you want to know about the Military Uniform. Then read the BSA rules regarding wearing Military Uniforms.

You will be surprised!

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Postby commish3 » Mon May 09, 2005 3:04 pm

It is also Illegal (Federal Law) to be in Military Uniform unless you are/were in the Military


That is not accurate either, I give you the example of Sea Scouts again.
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Postby ASM-142 » Mon May 09, 2005 3:31 pm

The Sea Scouts are also not wearing and ranks of the US Navy. If they were then it would be a problem.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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Postby Lynda J » Mon May 09, 2005 4:43 pm

We actually donated them to the musuem.
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Postby cballman » Mon May 09, 2005 5:21 pm

woodbadgegirl

to honestly answer your question I dont know but in our troop when the boys put on camo they just completly turn there minds off to all rules and dont want to hear anything about how they were acting. when in scout uniforms they do a much better job of listening to adults and others. so we discourge the use of camo at all times. but used in its place then it would be ok. as long as it is not worn with the uniform.
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Postby don » Mon May 09, 2005 6:04 pm

Woodbadgegirl
This story.
We just recently had an uniform inspection and the troop cleaned out their cabinet and found 4 pairs of scout shorts. You would have thought these boys that didn't own a pair, died and gone to heaven. They want to wear the complete uniform.

And do not worry about the camo things, it is just an old myth that some people will not let die.

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I am sorry but if someone can keep saying it is true, I should be able to say that it is untrue unless someone can show me any different.
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Postby RWSmith » Mon May 09, 2005 6:08 pm

FYI... U.S. Army Press Release... "Army gets new combat uniform"
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Postby commish3 » Mon May 09, 2005 6:17 pm

The Sea Scouts are also not wearing and ranks of the US Navy. If they were then it would be a problem.


Even the Sailors in the US Navy don'y wear ranks. In the Navy, and in Sea Scouts they are Ratings. The Rates in Sea Scouts are like those in the Navy and the badges of the Sea Scouts imitate the badges of the Navy.

Yet the Sea Scouts do not violate the rule regarding imitating "military" uniforms. Anyone figure out why?
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Postby hops_scout » Mon May 09, 2005 10:43 pm

Because the Navy is not a "military" force, they are a "naval" force :wink:
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Postby JazerNorth » Tue May 10, 2005 10:07 am

JazerNorth wrote:For those who need a definition of a Military Uniform, see the following links:
Army ==> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyreg/l/blar6701.htm
Air Force ==>http://usmilitary.about.com/od/afreg/l/blafi362903.htm
Navy ==> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navyregs ... s15665.htm

It takes quite a bit of stuff to make someone be in Military Uniform. It is also Illegal (Federal Law) to be in Military Uniform unless you are/were in the Military (see http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorder ... rmwear.htm).

Remember, read the above links before you start ripping this post apart. You will learn more than you want to know about the Military Uniform. Then read the BSA rules regarding wearing Military Uniforms.

You will be surprised!

JazerNorth


I would like to know how many actually read the documents above? You will find that what you are calling a uniform (camo stuff) is not part of the Military uniform. Yes they are part of the Military garb, but not the uniform. READ the documents very carefully. Therefore, you are arguing about whether or not scouts can wear Military Uniform, yet you are talking about camo. This is like arguing about Ice Cream and you really would be talking about potatoes. They both look white, but one is completely different from the other. Both are eaten, yet they are different.

Again, I ask that everyone read the above documents. Camo is NOT part of the Military Uniform. Argue if you must, but only argue if you have read the above documents.

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Postby commish3 » Tue May 10, 2005 10:14 am

Hops is correct. The definition of "military" is a land combat force. The Navy and the Air Force while a part of the armed forces are not military, which is why the Sea Scouts are cleared to wear Navy uniforms.
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