(Split Post) Camouflage issue, again!

Answers, ideas, and suggestions on the stuff troops need.

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Postby wagionvigil » Mon May 02, 2005 4:36 pm

Newcomers onLy on this one Please.
What local unit uniform decision can have your charter Lifted?
Last edited by wagionvigil on Mon May 02, 2005 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Question??

Postby riverwalk » Tue May 03, 2005 11:35 pm

Ooo, I think I know the Charter question, haha.

Lynda, yes they sure had footwear AND leggings even, haha. Say, did you actually "donate" or "loan"?? And don't forget the earlier Scout Museum over at Camp Wisdom. I'm going to the National again soon, and will look for your shoes. :roll:
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Postby Mick Scouter » Tue May 03, 2005 11:38 pm

Ok I guess I just don't get the question
What local unit uniform decision can have your charter Lifted?
:?:
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 04, 2005 7:33 am

What Local Uniforming Decision would be against the Original BSA Charter and could cause yur troop to be disbanded?
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Postby RWSmith » Wed May 04, 2005 12:54 pm

I think I know.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 04, 2005 3:36 pm

I bet you do! I would like to see some newcomers answer this!
Last edited by wagionvigil on Wed May 04, 2005 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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my guess is army print

Postby scoutchallenge » Fri May 06, 2005 12:16 pm

Camo ?
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Postby wagionvigil » Fri May 06, 2005 12:24 pm

Give that scout a Hand!!!
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Postby RWSmith » Fri May 06, 2005 3:20 pm

| | | |
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\## /
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Postby wagionvigil » Fri May 06, 2005 3:23 pm

Way too much time on your Hands :twisted:
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Postby RWSmith » Fri May 06, 2005 3:24 pm

:P
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Postby don » Fri May 06, 2005 5:54 pm

I do not believe that wearing camo will get your charter removed. I have looked and asked where this is written, Guess what it is not.
What is said, is that the BSA should not look like the miltary. I think this means anymore than we already do. :wink:
It says nothing about camo. Wearing camo will get you in no more trouble than wearing dockers, if everyone follows the BSA rules.

If you are so sure, please tell me where it is written.

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Postby RWSmith » Fri May 06, 2005 6:16 pm

BSA Rules and Regulations -- Article X, Section 4. INSIGNIA, UNIFORMS and BADGES

Clause 4. Prohibition of Alteration or Imitation
    (a) No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as described in the official publications, or the rules and regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local Council or any local executive board or committee, except the National Executive Board after consideration by the Program Group Committee.

    (b). Imitation of United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps or Air Force uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of Act of Congress, approved June 3, 1916.
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Postby wagionvigil » Fri May 06, 2005 6:25 pm

Don, it has been done Leaders have been removed from units on the Spot.
http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/camo.htm

Please read this
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Postby don » Fri May 06, 2005 11:40 pm

RWSmith
No where in the rules you posted said anything about camo.

wagionvigil
Sorry but Mr. Minters' site is not a official site nor does it even match some BSA rules and regulations. If someone got kicked out over camo it was someone who did not know the BSA rules, that kicked them out, but I really think it is only a scouting myth. (I did not go the site, been there, found better resources, official BSA rules).

I stand by my original post. No unit would have it charter pulled because someone is wearing camo. Camo is not just air force, army, navy, etc. Camo can just be for hunting. Wearing a pair of camo pants with a scout shirt, is just like wearing jeans with the scout shirt, it looks goofy and it is not a uniform. But the BSA is not going to sweep in and disband a troop for what it wears.

Not trying to be a pain, but I really believe that this is only a scouting myth, and I really dislikes scouting myths.

Show me the rule, that is all that I ask.
You will not be able to because there isn't one.
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Postby OldGreyBear » Sun May 08, 2005 8:40 pm

I agree, I need to see where its not BSA policy to wear camo. Now, wearing cammo and imitating a member of the US military are two different things. Last year I was at a summer camp leaders meeitng, one troop have a camo neckerchirf, a leader from another troop said that was illegal, the SM of the camo neckerchiefed troop said fine, show me in print where it says that. A neckerchief of camo can in no way be construed as imitating a military uniform, especially worn with a khacki shirt, red ribbons and BSA belt and pants and socks.

Having said the above, I do also have to say I agree camo is great for kids as most stores will seel their hunting camo at reduced prcies after season and you can get some good outerwear cheap if you have a scout that fits small and extra small adult. But I hardly ever see a scout with "real tree" camo on, its always the green/black/grey spoted camo associated with the military, but I dont think the military uses that pattern anymore, don't they go with the new "digital" pattern?

Anyway, another view, I saw a whole troop, well, every member of that troop at a district camporee in militay camo. No, no name tags, they were just dressed head to toe in military style camo. While I dont think anyone would have mistaken them for USA GI's, the kids whole demeanor was different. They strutted, they had more bravado and generally thought since they were wearing the stuff, they were tough. It seems to me the greatest danger of military camo is the kids wearing it think once its on they are Rambo and does stuff they normally wouldnt contemplate.

Anyway, imatating a military uniform bad, wearing camo not bad
Wearing "real tree" camo makes a better argument that camo is a great bargain, because I havent seem Wal-Mart, K-Mart or Cabela's see military camo in quite awhile (if they ever did) whereas military surplus stores are full of it.

So, what do I think of camo? I'm confused as if you couldnt tell, But I still would like to know if a troop of Scouts with Camo neckercheifs would get their charter pulled
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon May 09, 2005 7:25 am

No one is talking mecherchief or t shirts. We are taklking troops that show up in camo pants with their uniform shirt or in full camo for activities. SO reading what alot of you have said you approve of wearing anything you want. That when you got involved in scouting you did not realize that a uniform was in involved and you or the youth were expected to wear it.
I did overnight a letter to the National Office acking about this. Sevgeral years ago there was an article in scouting magazine about the use of camo being against policy. I am waiting for a reply.
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Postby OldGreyBear » Mon May 09, 2005 8:11 am

Wagion, you are going to explain to me how what I wrote tells you I dont suscribe to the Uniform method of scouting. What I said was Camo outer wear will go on sale and parents can buy decent outer wear when the hunters camo goes on sale at season end. But then I havent seen a lot of hunter's camo on boy scouts only military. I am talking about outer wear, winter wear, I am not talking about mixing camo with the field uniform and I think I said it bothered me when I saw a troop show up in full camo.

I am not sure how my first post gives you ammo to attack me based on what I wrote on camo
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Postby ASM-142 » Mon May 09, 2005 8:33 am

OldGreyBear wrote:Wagion, you are going to explain to me how what I wrote tells you I dont suscribe to the Uniform method of scouting. ...
I am not sure how my first post gives you ammo to attack me based on what I wrote on camo


OldGreyBear - In reading the posts I do not see where Wagionvigil aatacked you anyway.

I think that Wagionvigil is 100% correct in that scouts not only should not wear camo pants as part of their uniform but that scouts and scouters should not even question this. The BSA uniform is the BSA uniform and it does not include camo.

What is worn as outerwear is different and a hunting "coat" may be acceptable. Lets wait for a reply to Wagionvigil from National on this before we go back and forth.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon May 09, 2005 9:14 am

I was responding to the overall tone of this not to one person. If you took offense I am sorry. We all joined scouting knowing full well that uniforms are expected BUT we have leaders that promote the use of Camo on all outings. What are they hiding from?
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