boys with "incomplete" uniforms

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boys with "incomplete" uniforms

Postby troop173fl » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:30 pm

I have kid who wants to wear an "incomplete" scout shirt and shorts. Personally, i have no problem with it, but a few of the adults do. He has only the red sholder things, a flag and troop numbers. as i said, i dont mind. The second thing is his shorts. He took a pair of pants and hemmed them to be baggy shorts. Again, no problem from me. The SM complains that they arent scout shorts, but they were bought from the scout shop, and have only one scout button, the one above the zipper. He can afford the proper clothing, but he just doesnt want to. Aside from this, he is an excellent scout. He is a good leader, pays attention, helps out, does tons of community service, goes on all the campouts, and goes to even the PLC and adult meetings. Any suggestions?
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Postby commish3 » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:59 pm

Something here is not kosher.

The red shoulder loops or "things", with the flag and troop numbers is fine. Why doesn't someone give him a council strip as a reward for attendance or something so that he puts that on?

An "excellent scout" that doesn't weaqr his rank? He is on the PLC and doesn't wear his office? an excellent scout who is active and attentive???

But what bothers me is that the you seem two describe two different people. I have been around a lot of scouts, hundreds in fact, and I have never had a "an excellent scout" who dressed as you desribed.

Why would anyone go the the scout shop and buy slacks to cut off if you want them baggy? The scout shorts are much baggier than the slacks, and the current ones thougth not below the knee are much longer than the previous cut of a few years ago.

It just doesn't compute. The look doesn't match the description, the facts don't match the story...I don't know what to say other than it doesn't jive.
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Postby diamondbackAPL » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:16 pm

if he would wear his council, rank, and position badges, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

the only thing I don't understand is why he would pay lots of money for a pair of pants he would cut up anyway.

maybe the scoutmaster doesn't realize that modern boys usually wouldn't want to wear the full uniform, they would rather wear clothes that they're comfortable in. personally I would leave my shirt untucked if it wasn't disgracing scouts.
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Postby commish3 » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:06 pm

maybe the scoutmaster doesn't realize that modern boys usually wouldn't want to wear the full uniform


If scouting only taught values that "modern" boys WANTED there would be no need for scouting. The whole point of the program is that it teaches values that boys NEED to grow and prosper.

Growing up isn't about getting to do what you WANT to do. Growing up is not about doing what you HAVE to do. Growing up is about the things you CHOOSE to do.

You do not have to wear a complete uniform or even a partial uniform. What you have to do is choose what the right thing to do is, based on the values of the oath and law.

Is wearing a partial uniform or a sloppy uniform being Tustworthy? Loyal? Courteous? Obedient? Clean?

Is buying new slacks and cutting them into bad shorts Thrifty?

An "excellent scout" would make better choices.
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Postby Mick Scouter » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:13 pm

This story seems like a story one should better explain because it just does not make sense. More details are required.
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The Emporer's new clothes???

Postby riverwalk » Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:25 am

Hmmm, yeah, it's one thing for a Unit to make policy about what degree of Uniforming is required...it's another, to say oh yeah that's okay. I buy these on ebay, and it boggles the mind how many are set up differently with the same patches?? And there's nothing wrong with using shorts that are close in looks to Scout shorts, I do this myself. But allowing a baggy look could bring in other silly clothing fads to Scouts, IMHO. :?
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Let the Boys Set/Enforce Uniform Standards

Postby Billiken » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:27 am

A friend's troop had a problem with boys coming to meetings/events in various stages of uniform dress (undress).

They let the boys, through the Patrol Leader Council, set the uniform standard for various events (Class A (neckerchief yes/no), B, or optional).

The boys also conduct a quarterly inspection, usually done 2 weeks before the quarterly COH where it's full-dress uniform (with MB sash).

Apparently, since it's now more peer pressure than "Mr. XXX said so", the troop as a whole is better and more consistently attired.
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Postby Mrw » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:00 am

Every once in a while, one of our leaders will come into the meeting with a bags of candy pieces. This is random and never announced beforehand.

The boys get one piece for being in uniform - at least a scout shirt - and one piece if they have brought their book. It is amazing how easy it is to bribe these guys once and then they don't want to lose out the next time!

We do require boys wanting a BOR to be in full uniform - shirt, neckercheif, slide, and tucked in nicely. If they are not they would need to wait until the next advancement meeting. We generally do this one week a month so we can make sure we will have enough adults to do all the BOR's on the schedule. If we run out of time that week and there are still boys waiting, we will do them the next week, not make them wait.
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Postby Mick Scouter » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:33 pm

The fruits of a boy run troop.
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Postby commish3 » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:33 am

And there's nothing wrong with using shorts that are close in looks to Scout shorts, I do this myself


And there is why many boys do not where complete uniforms. Wearing what's close is not ok. Leaders telling scouts it is...is not OK. The uniform is not left up to individual choice. evrybody in the same program dresses the same thats why it called 'uniform'.

The goals of the uniform method cannot be achieved without the correct uniform. learning to follow the rules is part of what uniforming teaches. It's about making good choices based on the values of the Oath and Law.
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Postby wagionvigil » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:08 pm

Look what the word uniform Means . ALl the Same,Identical. Wearing Shorts that are "like" or "close" to BSA Shorts is unaccepatable in Uniforming. BSA actually used to sell offiucial Scout shoes and Boots
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Postby Eamonn » Sun May 01, 2005 12:38 am

Uniform and uniforming always seems to be a hot topic.
Maybe someone can help me out here. I do have a copy of the latest Cub Scout Leader Book, but have yet to buy a binder for it. If my memory serves me well past editions used to state that wearing partial Cub Scout uniforms was unacceptable. I'm almost sure it was in there in black and white.
I don't ever remember any Boy Scout book or publication spelling it out as clearly as the Cub Scout Leader Book does, but I echo what Wagion Vigil has said about the meaning of the word uniform.
I have never subscribed to the idea that we need to bash people over the head with a 2X4 in order to get them to follow the guidelines.
I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say that I never ever had a problem with uniforming. Sure there were times when a Scout would attend a meeting when his mother had the uniform in the wash and there were times when a Lad came from some other meeting and didn't have time to go home and change. I of course accepted the Scouts word on this because he was a Scout and he is to be trusted.
We had Scouts who were in the troop for sometime before they got a uniform. Sometimes this was because they needed to save up the money and sometimes it was parents waiting to see if the Lad was going to stay.
Soon after a new Lad arrived at our meetings, I would go and visit his home and his parents. I would explain why the uniform was important. I know for a fact that the Scouts were very proud to belong to the troop and that the troop neckerchief was very special to everyone. We gave each Scout his neckerchief and there was a story that went with it. Maybe it was a little over the top, but the pride our Lads had in that piece of material was tremendous.
I have to admit that I was very proud of my son, he was organizing the color guard for the flag ceremony at an OA weekend, some Scouts who were not wearing Scout pants were ready to participate and without any input from the adults he informed them that they weren't in uniform and they couldn't be in the color guard. I have never mentioned this to him, but I had a hard time getting into the dining hall because my head was so swollen :)
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Postby Mick Scouter » Sun May 01, 2005 10:47 pm

Tis always a hot topic. Does a football coach let a kid play without the same uniform? What about soccer? Yet Scouts???????? What are you going to do?
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Postby Woodbadgegirl » Mon May 02, 2005 8:42 am

Our new troop is in a some what financially strapped town. I have been told that most of the boys that attend are on lunch assistance. I have noticed that every boy has a shirt with complete pateches including their current rank. Some wear the uniform shorts or pants. But the troop has said if they can't afford the pants or shorts that they can wear jeans. We just recently had an uniform inspection and the troop cleaned out their cabinet and found 4 pairs of scout shorts. You would have thought these boys that didn't own a pair, died and gone to heaven. They want to wwear the complete uniform.

My son wears the whole nine yards to every meeting, right down to the scout knee socks! Ohters have started dressing in complete uniform for every meeting as well. I feel the boys follow example of their peers. If the older boys take the uniform serious, the younger ones will as well.
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Postby evmori » Mon May 02, 2005 11:24 am

Mick Scouter wrote:Tis always a hot topic. Does a football coach let a kid play without the same uniform? What about soccer? Yet Scouts???????? What are you going to do?


Good point, Mick! The difference is the uniforms IS required to play football, soccer, basketball, etc. It isn't required to be a BSA member. And until it is, this will continue to be a problem.
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Postby commish3 » Mon May 02, 2005 12:34 pm

The uniform problem is not that all scouts do not wear complete uniforms.

The uniform problem is that not all leaders support the wearing of a complete uniform, and that not all leaders know and use the methods of Scouting.

Making the uniform mandatory will not make individuals better leaders. There are already other rules in scouting that these same leaders do not follow as well.

Rather than make every Method of Scouting a "policy" we should work to select leaders of intergrity who will make the effort to learn and follow the BSA program as others do.
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Keep the Scouting Spirit??

Postby riverwalk » Mon May 02, 2005 2:35 pm

Well, it is easy for some (we all know some) to be such a stickler for a detail that we lose sight of Program. Keep in mind the alligator and swamp story, haha. There are some National Policies to be sure, and we see them herein often. But the Uniforming issue is also one that individual Units decide what their policy is. You can't overlook Nat'l such as altering the Uniform. But for all the registered folks here that just read, and not post (like all forums)...be not afraid to conduct your local Program by the Book, but realistically too. There are Units near me, in affluent areas, and they set a joining fee that covers lots of stuff, including Boy's Life. Most of us rightly promote all this, but know better than to force this. In my Industry, your Uniforms and equipment is provided and therefore you must be "uniform". In like agencies that don't issue same, one sees people doing the best they can. We've got that Scouting Spirit down in our toes, down in our t......hey, are you lookin' at my shoes?? :lol: My HO has been edited a couple of times. :)
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Postby Lynda J » Mon May 02, 2005 4:20 pm

They did make BSA shoes. I found a pair at a resale shop a couple of years ago. They had never been worn and still had t he stickers on them.
I paid $2.50 for them Did some research on the company that made them and they went out of business in 1957. My boys took them to the Museum in Irving and donated them.
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Postby Mrw » Mon May 02, 2005 4:58 pm

We recommend, but don't force families to buy the scout pants.

We ask the boys to where pants as close to the official as possible color-wise if they don't have the official ones. Our older boys, who have been to JLTC and had Eagle BOR's/COH's all have uniform pants. Most of the younger ones who grow a few inches a year do not, unless they are hand-me-downs.

When they grow out of stuff, it comes back for a smaller kid to have.
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Postby Mick Scouter » Tue May 03, 2005 11:35 pm

Experienced uniforms are great.
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