What Uniform Changes would the Youth Like To See?

Answers, ideas, and suggestions on the stuff troops need.

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Postby BM_Crawford » Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:35 am

I can see what you're saying cballman however a football team or a band is about uniformality. Scouting is about people and how each person is shaped. An example of this...My one friend is in scouting and has the 70's uniform that was discussed earlier. That's all he has no pants. socks, ect. Everyone still knows he's a scout. Whether one scout is wearing blue jeans and the other is wearing green pants as long as they have the class A everyone still knows that they are a scout. The pants doesnt make the man the man makes the man. Who you are on the inside is the test of character not your green pants.

We, however are getting pretty off topic. We're suppose to be talking about changes not debating over uniform ediquette :)
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uniform

Postby cballman » Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:08 am

Brian

thats right also but the debate will still go on . it still does not matter in a child in scouting has a uniform because in roundtable we teach if someone cannot afford a uniform then all we require is a scout handbook or weblos, or bear, wolf or tiger book as lon as we have a child.
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Postby Guneukitschik » Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:32 am

Not to wander off the subject too far...
You don't actually NEED to have the uniform pants to play football or baseball....but don't forget that the school usually pays for the uniforms.
Scouting differs in that the parents and in some cases the scout actually pays for the uniform. The pants are usually not required by most troops simply because the boys grow way to quickly.

I think National will take the info they get from their survey and make a fairly educated decision and come up with a new uniform design.
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Postby t305spl » Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:27 am

Guys I here you all talking about prices. What happens if national does change the uniform will we have to change our uniform? That would raise the prices for us. I'm sorry but I paid for the uniform i have now i don't want to throw it out and buy something new now that national changed it. I think the uniform should have minor changes like bigger pockets, something so that when they do change it we all dont have to change.
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Postby optimist » Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:33 am

Goodness gracious... I had an epic written out supporting the need for full uniforming and it didn't go through [you can all applaud now].

Suffice it to say that uniforming is just as important to this program as it is to any program requiring it. Not only that, but the comparison to school sports programs is misleading since the majority of school programs do not pay for the uniforming and all non-school programs have uniforming costs as well.
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Postby optimist » Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:37 am

t305spl wrote:Guys I here you all talking about prices. What happens if national does change the uniform will we have to change our uniform?


No, you have an official uniform and you may wear it until it wears out normally.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:12 am

At one time Dungrees (?) were accepted as Uniform Pants. What these are is what we call blue jeans. I know mant troops allow jeans and accorning to the original charter these are perfectly acceptable ,until the scout can get uniform pants. Many councils have uniform banks where scout can turn in their experienced uniforms and give you a credit on a new one which amounts to a few $ off.
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Postby Billvann » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:38 am

t305spl wrote:Guys I here you all talking about prices. What happens if national does change the uniform will we have to change our uniform?


You can were any previous issue uniform as long as the parts are all from the same era. So you cannoy mix and match shirts, pants, socks, etc. from different styles.

As an aside, our crew was relaxing at Tooth Ridge camp on our last afternoon on the trail at Philmont when an off-duty ranger strolled up to our site. That's not extraordinary as rangers often hit the trail on their days off to visit camps and trails they have not gone to with their assigned crews. But this ranger, on his day off, was hiking in a complete 1970's era uniform, including long pants! When asked about his choice of hiking clothes he replied that he always remembered seeing promotional photos and posters of Philmont with scouts hiking the trail in a similar uniform. So when he found such a uniform in a garage sale he bought it. He wears it on the trail because it looked and felt right to him.

Kudos to a scout who actively advertises that he is a scout.
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Postby don » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:50 am

Don't go master of spas on me

To Late I already own a spa! Or did you mean spaz?

You have me totally confused, I try to follow the BSA methods, which are.
Ideals
Patrols
Outdoor Programs
Advancement
Personal Growth
Leadership Development
Uniform

So yes I think the uniform is a BIG part of scouting. Why else would the BSA include it in the methods, if they did not think so.
I have paid for many soccer uniforms.

You don't actually NEED to have the uniform pants to play football or baseball.

Do you really think a coach is going to allow a player to play in blue jeans?

The pants are usually not required by most troops simply because the boys grow way to quickly.

I really thing that is only an excuse! Most units that I see out of uniform also include the adult leaders, are they growing to quickly also?

At one time Dungrees (?) were accepted as Uniform Pants
Wow, when was this? I was a scout in 66!
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:59 am

I was a scout of the 60's also and my parents made suer I had a complete uniform. And they were just as expensive as they are now. Again the same parents that complain about the cost of a scout uniform are the same ones that will plop down $100.00 for a pair of gym shoes. I posted the dungaree thing just to show that even when scouting began there were uniform problems. The dungarees were when scouts began.
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Postby t305spl » Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:06 am

I feel the Uniform has to be worn and has to be worn correctly. They shouldn't change the uniform for cerain people. If you cant afford it it's one thing but to just not wear it's a totally diffrent story. The uniform was created for a reason. The uniform shows unity and should always be worn in full. I mean i'm probabily one of the youngest here but I know that if its part of scouts you have to wear it no debating.
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Postby t305spl » Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:08 am

Im the SPL in my troop and im absolutely sick of scouts just not wearing it. If you have it then wear it. If you cant afford it speak to your troop and they can figure something out.
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Postby BM_Crawford » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:03 pm

Don

Spas master means your the master of spas. You're flipping out for no real reason. I dont agree with you get over it. I dont care if you were a scout in 66 this is 04 so that doesnt mean much to me. If you truly knew what scouting was about you would realize the uniform is a symbol its not scouting. Scouting is about the developement of people and interaction. Policy is guidlines its not what scouting IS.

Now dont reply to me unless your going to lose the spas and talk to me like a human being and not entice me to continue this bickering.

Something thats hard to learn is people dont always agree, you'll have to get over it I did.
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:18 pm

I have a problem with what is going on here. If things do not change NOW it is a shut down on this thread.
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Postby BM_Crawford » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:22 pm

Sorry I'll just ignore Don so you can consider this argument completely closed :)
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:36 pm

Thanks Brian I appreciate It.
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Postby BM_Crawford » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:39 pm

No problem anything to help :)
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Postby don » Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:02 pm

I have to ask, did I do something wrong? I was discussing the issues. I was not upset, just stating what I felt and info from BSA.
Is this forum not meant to discuss the issues and talk about BSA polices?

I do not feel that I spazed out, unless you say quoting info from the BSA is spazing.

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you have all the right in the world to ignore me, I have no problem with that. But if you are going to post on a discussion board, you should be willing to discuss. It would be the scoutlike thing to do.
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Postby scoutmasterbob » Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:26 pm

The last time I looked courteous was still part of the Scout Law.....

The Scoutmaster Handbook, page 152:
A boy is not required to have a uniform in order to be a Boy Scout. However troop leaders should set the example by wearing the uniform themselves and by encouraging each Scout to aquire and wear a uniform


Here is a good link to a news article about the Utah Jazz and how Coach Jerry Sloan feels about uniforms.

http://www.desnews.com/cgi-bin/libstory_reg?dn00&0004240110

Its not about the uniform its about discipline and respect.
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Postby BM_Crawford » Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:29 pm

I agree with you Scoutmaster Bob, I just dont think its 100% necessary to be in full class A or what not after your growing out of it :)
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