Camp Applying Age/Rank Restrictions on MB Classes

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Camp Applying Age/Rank Restrictions on MB Classes

Postby Billiken » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:27 am

The Buckeye Council (OH) uses BadgeTracker software for the booking/tracking of MBs at summer camp.

The software shows the various MBs along with class times and length.
For some MBs it shows Minumum Age and Rank.

For example:

Archery 12 Tenderfoot (no age/rank min. for Rifle or Shotgun)
Astronomy 13 Second Class
Canoeing 12 Second Class (no age/rank for Rowing or Sailing)
Cit Nation 13 First Class
Geology 0 Tenderfoot
Leatherwk 0 Tenderfoot

I'm curious re other opinions.....
Are they adding to the requirements?
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:41 am

Most summer camps offer a First Year Camper program of some type. this keys on THe 2nd and 1st class requirements. It also offers a couple of MB. Our Camp offers Swimming to those that passed the Swimmers test and at the same time for those that did not offer Instructional swim. They take the boys on hikes using Map and compass,they work on knots and scout craft skills etc. IMHO this should be required for ALL first year campers. It is a great program and moves the new kids through the lower ranks. Of course there are some SM out there that do not like that because it moves them "Too QUick" and they want to keep them 2nd class for a year or so. THese are the same tropps that never have an Eagle under 17.
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Postby evmori » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:57 am

I understand the archery & canoing age restrictions, but why are there age restrictions on astronomy & Citizenship in the Nation? And why is Citizebship in the Nation even offered?

Are they adding to the requirements? Good question. It could be viewed as such but it could also be viewed as a safety issue.
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Postby Billiken » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:00 am

evmori wrote:I understand the archery & canoing age restrictions, but why are there age restrictions on astronomy & Citizenship in the Nation? And why is Citizenship in the Nation even offered?


The also offer Citz World and E. Prep......
They offer a total of 42 MBs.
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Postby Mrw » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:08 am

The camp we go to imposes age restrictions of 13 for climbing and motorboating. I think this has more to do with limiting the numbers of boys wanting the classes than anything else.

We have found their first year program to be a bit wanting and so the past couple years have run our own that week for the new boys. The get a regular merit badge seesion and then a couple of the older boys and the SM work with them on their Tenderfoot and second class camping /outdoor skills.

The boys learn more this way and it occupies the older boys who have already completed all the camp badge offerings they are interested in.

The only required badges offered at the camp we go to are Emergency Prep, Environmental Science, Camping, Swiming and a partial on Hiking or Cycling unless you have completed the hikes/rides before camp. I don't remember if they offer Lifesaving.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:22 am

I want to add that Council Advancement COmmittees to have some authority.
Restricting for age serves several purposes at SUmmer Camp.
It limits the number in the class. Remember some of those that are restricted are labor intensive. Climbing, Motorboating, You must limit numbers. What we so is restrict say CLimbing to 13. If we do not have enough to fill the class the camp will ower it to say 12 and First Class etc. Now if your climbing program is operated under COPE and the Tower is inspected as a COPE element you cannot go lower as COPE standards state no one under 13 is permited on a high element. I you doubt me I will send you a copy. :!:
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Postby scoutaholic » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:30 pm

wagionvigil wrote:Most summer camps offer a First Year Camper program of some type. this keys on THe 2nd and 1st class requirements. It also offers a couple of MB. Our Camp offers Swimming to those that passed the Swimmers test and at the same time for those that did not offer Instructional swim. They take the boys on hikes using Map and compass,they work on knots and scout craft skills etc. IMHO this should be required for ALL first year campers. It is a great program and moves the new kids through the lower ranks. Of course there are some SM out there that do not like that because it moves them "Too QUick" and they want to keep them 2nd class for a year or so. THese are the same tropps that never have an Eagle under 17.


Most camps I have seen offer a TFoot-1stClass program, but it is usually not a good program for the boys.

I don't think I have ever taken a boy to summer camp who still needed ALL of the TFoot-1stClass requirements. The program at camp covers everything they can (and sometimes pretends to cover the things they can't) during the week. Why would a 2nd Class scout who has just a few requirements left on 1st Class want to attend 12 hours of classes where they repeat all the things he has already done?

These types of programs would be much more helpful if they would make a schedule where the boys can attend one day to do all the 1st Aid, another for Knots/Lashings, etc.

From what I have seen, the boys would be better served by taking 1st Aid, Pioneering, and Orienteering MBs. This will cover most of the same material, AND get them some MBs. The few TFoot-1stClass requirements not covered by these MBs can be covered individually in camp or with troop at another time.
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Postby pipestone1991 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:57 pm

There is no restriction for envi sci or shotgun?!
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Postby Billiken » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:21 pm

pipestone1991 wrote:There is no restriction for envi sci or shotgun?!


Supposely the BadgeTracker system will be updated by May 1st.
I would expect to see more age restrictions for Rifle, Shotgun, and Motorboating (currently no restrictions on any of these 3).
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Postby pipestone1991 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:54 pm

Billiken wrote:
pipestone1991 wrote:There is no restriction for envi sci or shotgun?!


Supposely the BadgeTracker system will be updated by May 1st.
I would expect to see more age restrictions for Rifle, Shotgun, and Motorboating (currently no restrictions on any of these 3).


There have always been a 1st Class req for Envi Sci since it is such a popular badge.
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Postby Mrw » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:16 pm

I think the camp we go to has a size restriction for shotguns rather than an age restriction.
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Postby Quailman » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:32 pm

This may well be another case of restricting access to limited resources. If you have a small archery range and ample room for Riflery and Shotgun, you can controll access, and thus the number of disappointed scouts, if you limit the sign-up by age or rank.

Or they may have other reasons for for their limitations. Cit Nation??? Of course, it helps if you've had US History in school. Perhaps that's their thinking. You just have to ask the boys what they know about it rather than explain it to them.
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Postby deweylure » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:57 am

There are no rank restrictions on any badge,the best example is first aid.It states know the first aid for the rank requirements not earn that rank.

Age restrictions may be a local ordinance such as driving a motor boat,in that case law prevails. Some post stated cope had an age restriction.

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Postby milominderbinder2 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:24 pm

This is also being discussed in another forum:

http://www.meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtop ... sc&start=0

- - - -

The BSA Advancement Polices #33088 are very clear on this.

"Any Boy Scout may earn any merit badge at any time."

[i]No one can add or subtract from the Boy Scout Requirements.


Various forms of that statement appear nine times in the Advancement Policies (#33088).

This policy is also explained in the Guide to Merit Badge Counselors:
http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/Guide ... elors.aspx

"...you may not tack on new requirements..."

It is also in the Boy Scout Requirements #33215, page 22-23:
http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/Advan ... adges.aspx

"Any Boy Scout may earn any merit badge at any time."

"Requirements. You are expected to meet the requirements as they are stated—no more and no less."


If you are here on this forum, you are trying to reach out for answers. Please spend the $3.99 for a copy of #33088.

We can't add an age or any other requirement or prerequisite to a merit badge. We can't remove requirements either.

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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:41 pm

Craig
I fully expect Swimming to be put back in as a requirement for Lifesaving.
Climb On Safely age appropriate guidelines are specific as to who can do what and a 10 1/2 year old Scout is eliminated by that guiide Which estabilishes the rules for climbing activities. Belaying starts at 11.
I realize yes he can start the MB but he cannot belay as per COS. So why bother. I do not allow partials. My climbing staff at camp also do not give partials. Maybe you know what they are doing with BSA LifeGuard to make it worth even less. When you find out let us know.
I will help a kid pass the MB I will bend over backwards to accomadate a handicapped induividual BUT I will not allow a 10 1/2 year old take climbing.
ALso back to Lifesaving the Firsta requirement is the 1/4 mile swim which must be coimpleted before anyother requirement is attempted. Is that not a preresiquite?
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Postby milominderbinder2 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:15 pm

I have also heard that Swimming may be made a requirement for Lifesaving again. The reasoning I am told for not doing it is that the Lifesaving requirements already cover everything of substance in Swimming and much more.

The problem with not allowing partials is that this may prevent a Scout from moving at his own pace. Without partials you are forced into a go-no go situation. I know of staff in that situation who "round up" 80% or 90% completed at the end of a week to 100% because their only other option is declare that the Scout has done nothing.

BSA Life Guard was rumoured to have been updated last year but did not come in. At least 4 merit badge that were being re-written did not make the 2008 draft either.

The BSA Lifeguard actually has 4 prerequisites listed in requirements 1 and 2 including the minimum age: 14.

Lifesaving has the swimming tests (requirement #1) as it's prerequisite before doing requirements 2-15.

Swimming has the swimming tests (requirement #3) as it's prerequisite before doing anything else in the water.

As to the special needs situations, I really think it is important to follow #33088 p. 43-45. That is a safer approach.

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Postby wagionvigil » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:20 pm

New BSA LifeGuard Requirements this sumer for sure. MORE WATER IN THE POT!
I have had handicapped kids Rappel,Do the Flying Squirrel etc. As Long as I can get them up on the tower they can do it. FLying Squirrel starts on the ground so that is never a problem. tThere is a little skinny kid holding on to a rope in one of the Jamboree Pictures Wheel Chair Bound but not on my shift
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Postby Chief J » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:46 am

Our summer camp has age/rank restrictions for a few popular merit badges t limit class size. i.e., motorboating. As the camp has only a few motorboats and the number of participants in each boat is set by law, the camp gives prefrence by age 17 first, 16 second, etc.

They also limit a few others in the same manner.

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Postby FrankJ » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:21 pm

Are the changes in the life saving requirements to bring it in line with the Red Cross?
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Postby wagionvigil » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:27 pm

Have not seen them they will be released this summer. But I bet you they are making it easier. I hope I am wrong.
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