Merit Badges from summer camp

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Merit Badges from summer camp

Postby mv74 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:13 pm

If a scout comes back from camp with 1 - 2 simple items left to do on a Merit Badge (like completing a woodcarving for the Woodcarving MB) and we do not have a Counselor for that MB, can a leader (Advancement chr, SM, ASM) sign off on the MB for completion?

The other option is to sign someone up for the MB after the fact.

We usually get a list of Completions and Partials from the camp and I (Advcmt Chr) generate the cards and write in the summer camp name as counselor.

Thanks!
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Postby ICanCanoeCanU » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:26 pm

Our boys usually find someone else in the Council that is a MBC for the badge. If we can't find anyone in the Council that is close, then often an adult has signed up to cover the badge. We try to find another counselor first though as we find it very beneficial for the boys to reach out to another adult that they don't know.
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Postby Swim4lyfe » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:40 pm

In my troop, only the ScoutMaster can sign off on incomplete merit badges, and it's only on special occassions.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:17 pm

From what I read in the BSA literature, only an approved MB councelor can sign off a MB. I can't find any reference to a SM or Advancement Chair being allowed.

We find a councelor to complete the partials or, if there isn't one, we go recruit one.

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Postby Chief J » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:55 pm

If a scout comes home with a partial, we find a merit badge counselor in the Troop or District for the scout to finish up with.

The Troop (Scout) will get the blue card from camp with those requirements completed signed off.

If there is no merit badge counselor in the area, we attempt to recruit an adult to sign up and cover that merit badge.

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Re: Merit Badges from summer camp

Postby ASM-142 » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:46 pm

mv74 wrote:can a leader (Advancement chr, SM, ASM) sign off on the MB for completion?


The answer is YES (but only if they are approved MBC for that specific MB.)
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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Re: Merit Badges from summer camp

Postby scoutaholic » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:19 am

ASM-142 wrote:
mv74 wrote:can a leader (Advancement chr, SM, ASM) sign off on the MB for completion?


The answer is YES (but only if they are approved MBC for that specific MB.)


In our council the answer is YES, with no qualifying statement afterwards. Any Adult registered in any position is considered qualified to sign MBs. Our council makes no attempt to 'approve' MBCs for specific MBs. ANY MBC can sign any MB. Many Districts and Troops try to keep a list of recommeded councilors for specific subjects, but there is no approval or certification process for these MBCs.
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Postby ICanCanoeCanU » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:49 am

Any MBC can sign off any MB?
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Postby Chief J » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:25 am

ICanCanoeCanU wrote:Any MBC can sign off any MB?


No, the council/district/troop should have a list of approved merit badge counselors for each merit badge. Only counselors who have signed up and are registered to counsel that particular merit badge may verify the requirements were met and "sign-off".

Example, a meirt badge counselor for Sports cannot sign off on the Athletic Merit Badge unless he is also registered as a counselor for the Athletic Merit Badge.

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Re: Merit Badges from summer camp

Postby bluenote » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:54 am

scoutaholic wrote:
ASM-142 wrote:
mv74 wrote:can a leader (Advancement chr, SM, ASM) sign off on the MB for completion?


The answer is YES (but only if they are approved MBC for that specific MB.)


In our council the answer is YES, with no qualifying statement afterwards. Any Adult registered in any position is considered qualified to sign MBs. Our council makes no attempt to 'approve' MBCs for specific MBs. ANY MBC can sign any MB. Many Districts and Troops try to keep a list of recommeded councilors for specific subjects, but there is no approval or certification process for these MBCs.

What about MB's that require the counselor to have special certifications (i.e. Rifle, Shotgun, First Aid, etc....)?
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Postby OldGreyBear » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:17 pm

What special certifcation does a Rifle, Shotgun or First aid Counselor need? DOnt just tell me, please give me a reference where I can share it with others, COuncil Documents dont count
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Postby FrankJ » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:42 pm

The required qualifications for a merit badge councilor is left up the district or council advancement committee. You fill out why you think you are qualified on the merit badge councilor app. The qualifications can be anything from professional experience to a hobby. Presumably the councilors should be following G2SS which would mean the a scout shooting a gun would be on a range with a qualified safety officer, water type merit badges would require safe swim & safety afloat & so on.

As for merit badge at summer camp. We have in the past sign off minor requirements in the name of the camp with the camp staff permission. To follow the letter of the advancement guidelines, you are suppose to be an approved council merit badge counselor for the merit badge you sign off for. I guess a council could put all registered leader on a list for all merit badges, but that would be kinda of silly.

The only reason that a merit badge can be taken away after it is awarded is if the merit badge counselor was not on the approved list. (In the advancement guideline book) In most councils I expect that would be a difficult thing to prove.
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Postby bluenote » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:53 pm

OldGreyBear wrote:What special certifcation does a Rifle, Shotgun or First aid Counselor need? DOnt just tell me, please give me a reference where I can share it with others, COuncil Documents dont count


Taken directly from the Guide to Safe Scouting section on firearms....

BOY SCOUT STANDARDS

Boy Scouts are permitted to fire .22-caliber bolt-action, single-shot rifles, air rifles, shotguns, and muzzle-loading long guns under the direction of a certified instructor, 21 years of age or older, within the standards outlined in current Scouting literature and bulletins.


Also, it specifically states under both Shotgun and Rifle standards....

All training and shooting activities must be supervised by a currently NRA-certified rifle instructor or coach who is 21 years of age or older.


The Rifle & Shotgun shooting MB books state the same things regarding instructor certification.

I have a cousin who is a paramedic and counsels the First Aid MB. IIRC, he had to show proof of some level of medical license in order to be listed for First Aid. I also know that the aquatics staff at a summer camp is required to have at least a certain level of certification, including safe swim, BSA guard, etc....
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Postby scoutaholic » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:58 pm

Chief J wrote:
ICanCanoeCanU wrote:Any MBC can sign off any MB?
No, the council/district/troop should have a list of approved merit badge counselors for each merit badge. Only counselors who have signed up and are registered to counsel that particular merit badge may verify the requirements were met and "sign-off".

Example, a merit badge counselor for Sports cannot sign off on the Athletic Merit Badge unless he is also registered as a counselor for the Athletic Merit Badge. ...

I was simply reporting how it works in our council. I didn't say it was the best way, but that doesn't make the council policy change.

In GSL Council, ANY registered adult (MBC or any other position) can sign any MB.

Example, a MBC for Sports CAN sign off on the Athletics MB, as well as Art, Architechture, Archeaology, American Business, etc, etc. The council makes no attempt to track who can sign for which badge. ANY registered adult can sign for ANY MB.
G2SS, SSD, SA, COS, etc have guidelines that specify who can lead specific types of activities, but they don't specify that the MBC has to be that person.
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Postby ICanCanoeCanU » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:46 pm

Scoutaholic - this doesn't make any sense, at least not to me? So why would anyone even sign up for a specific MB if they can sign off on any?

How can Nationals except this method?


Does anyone else out there have this same policy in their council?
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Postby scoutaholic » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:49 pm

ICanCanoeCanU wrote:... So why would anyone even sign up for a specific MB if they can sign off on any?...


I don't know of a way in our council to sign up for a specific MB. When you register as MBC, they don't ask which MB(s).

Districts and Troops often try to keep a list of councilors for specific MBs that they use.

Even if you could sign up at the council level for a specific MB, they would never know if you signed that MB or a different one. The MBC is not on the advancement/mb report we turn in to the council.
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Postby WVBeaver05 » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:50 pm

From BSA Form 34405 - MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR INFORMATION wrote:To qualify as a merit badge counselor, you must
• Be at least 18 years old.
Be proficient in the merit badge subject by vocation, avocation, or special training.
...

(emphasis added)

Seems pretty clear to me.

On this form (see: http://www.scouting.org/forms/34405.pdf ) the Counselor lists which MBs and the basis for proficiency. Additionally, the form ends with a place for "Council approval by"

My interpretation is that this is required.

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Postby WVBeaver05 » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:59 pm

scoutaholic wrote:Even if you could sign up at the council level for a specific MB, they would never know if you signed that MB or a different one. The MBC is not on the advancement/mb report we turn in to the council.

It is true that only the blue card has the MB Counselor's signature on it and, as I understand it, almost no Councils get anything but the Advancement Report.

However, "A Scout is Trustworthy". I would hope that all leaders who know the rules would follow them.

YiS
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Postby ICanCanoeCanU » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:44 am

You don't turn in a blue card? This is insane?

We can't just turn in an advancement report to our council. No blue card, no credit for badge? The blue card is the proof to council that a MBC signed off on all requirements.


I don't have the ability to start a poll on this one but would love to see a poll to see how many of us are required to turn in blue cards with signatures to council.
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Postby ASM-142 » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:43 pm

Blue Cards are not required for advancement and therefore there is not need to complete them or turn them in with the advancement form.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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