Summit Plans well under way for 2013

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Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:50 am

The Summit concept is to have “activity centers” such are Shooting Sports, Adventure Courses, Aquatics, Extreme Games, and Hiking/Nature. In addition there is a planned Buckskin area and in the future a potential Highland Games outpost. These activity areas will incorporate most of our Action Center activities. Shooting Sports would have Trap Shooting as we know it, Camp Thunder and perhaps a full fledged 5 stand course, 22 cal. Rifle, Archery (both targets and 3D course range) and perhaps more. Adventure Courses would have Zip lines, confidence courses, Canopy Walks, Climbing Towers, Rappelling, Bouldering, etc Extreme Sports would have Motocross, Mountain Boarding, Mountain Biking, Skateboarding, etc. Aquatics and Boating would have multiple activities on the lakes and rivers. Hiking and Nature would have Geocaching, Orienteering, Spelunking, Digital Games, etc. The current concept under consideration is to have the participants sign up during the registration process for half day or full day at the activity center of their choice. They would be given choices (1-5 for example) on a first come first served basis. When they arrive they will be checked in and receive an AT&T device that contained all of their registration information, schedule, etc. Did I mention that Randall Stephenson (AT&T CEO) is the 2013 Jamboree chairman? During the 10 days of the Jamboree there would be two Arena Shows (more on the arena later), a day of hiking with the OA, and a day of “giving back”. The “giving back” day would involve community service in the area (a community, the national park adjacent to our property, or on the property).

The Entrance Area (The Village) would have the Arena, visitors area, and several activities in which day visitors (who will pay a fee) may participate (yes, some of these might be our standard Action Center activities). The concept is that visitors are visitors are not allowed in the participant area. They will be accommodated, have the opportunity to meet with family members on staff or participating but will only have access to “The Village” which also includes the Arena.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby FrankJ » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:57 am

So is the vision to have a central camping (cabin?) area & then have the scouts spend their days at the various activity areas? Kinda a high charge summer camp experience (or Sea Base) rather than a Philmont thing?
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby wagionvigil » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:31 pm

No what I posted applys to the 2013 National Jamboree not the High Adventure Base
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby scoutaholic » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:14 pm

wagionvigil wrote:The Summit concept is to have “activity centers” such are Shooting Sports, Adventure Courses, Aquatics, Extreme Games, and Hiking/Nature. In addition there is a planned Buckskin area and in the future a potential Highland Games outpost. These activity areas will incorporate most of our Action Center activities. Shooting Sports would have Trap Shooting as we know it, Camp Thunder and perhaps a full fledged 5 stand course, 22 cal. Rifle, Archery (both targets and 3D course range) and perhaps more. Adventure Courses would have Zip lines, confidence courses, Canopy Walks, Climbing Towers, Rappelling, Bouldering, etc Extreme Sports would have Motocross, Mountain Boarding, Mountain Biking, Skateboarding, etc. Aquatics and Boating would have multiple activities on the lakes and rivers. Hiking and Nature would have Geocaching, Orienteering, Spelunking, Digital Games, etc.

I like the idea of having activity centers. I think activities and facilities can be better if they focus on having them in a single activity center rather than trying to duplicate everything and have them in multiple action centers. (However, the former directors from towers A, B, and C may put up a fight to take your tower director position if there is only one such position available.) I think they can improve capacity in one activity center better than trying to duplicate capacity by having multiple action centers.

wagionvigil wrote:The current concept under consideration is to have the participants sign up during the registration process for half day or full day at the activity center of their choice. They would be given choices (1-5 for example) on a first come first served basis. When they arrive they will be checked in and receive an AT&T device that contained all of their registration information, schedule, etc.

I like the idea of preregistration for a few limited events, but I don't like it for general use in all activities. When a boy registers for Jambo (sometimes 2 years in advance), he will not know what activities he will want to register for on each day, and will have no way of knowing when such plans may conflict with other activities. This type of system would make it very difficult to participate in activities with a patrol or troop. If they want to preregister for some activities in order to control lines, then I think a better option would be to have the registration on site when the participants arrive. There should also be accommodation for leaders to register for a group (patrol/troop) to participate in activities. Maybe a similar line control could be achieved by issuing tickets that could be available at subcamp headquarters.

wagionvigil wrote:Did I mention that Randall Stephenson (AT&T CEO) is the 2013 Jamboree chairman?

If his plans are similar to what they did at the last jambo ('the most connected ever'), I hope they fire him now and get someone who can actually get connected.
My phone had rare, spotty service at the jamboree. Their recharging stations were not adequate. There was no recharging facility for non-AT&T devices. They punished us for exceeding their capacity by further limiting access and by locking the phones left on the chargers inside their building (not plugged into the chargers) for 18+ hours.

wagionvigil wrote:During the 10 days of the Jamboree there would be two Arena Shows (more on the arena later), a day of hiking with the OA, and a day of “giving back”. The “giving back” day would involve community service in the area (a community, the national park adjacent to our property, or on the property).

I hope that the 'giving back' is done in the national park or for nearby communities. It would seem rather self-serving to 'give back' on projects that only benefit the scout property.

wagionvigil wrote:The Entrance Area (The Village) would have the Arena, visitors area, and several activities in which day visitors (who will pay a fee) may participate (yes, some of these might be our standard Action Center activities). The concept is that visitors are visitors are not allowed in the participant area. They will be accommodated, have the opportunity to meet with family members on staff or participating but will only have access to “The Village” which also includes the Arena.

I think it rather cheap of the BSA to charge admission to visitors who aren't allowed to do anything. If they come to visit with a participant, or to see the Jambo, they should be able to do that for free. If they want to see the arena show, then they should pay a small admission fee. If they want to participate in activities there should be a way for them to pay a participation fee, and there should be capacity to accommodate day participants.



While I am giving my opinions to people who can't do anything about it, I have a few more jamboree comments not directly related to your post.

Is there some reason that participants shouldn't use the shuttle buses after the dinner hour? I had some very long evening walks, and the drivers of the empty buses wouldn't let us ride because we were not staff. Even if they make rules that staff gets priority seating, I can't think of a reason that participants should not be allowed to fill the empty seats.

Mysterium Compass - If the OA is going to hype their show for years in advance, I think they should live up to the hype and have capacity to accommodate all the participants that their hype generates. Issuing tickets for half of each troop was a cheap shot. Also, the youth who participated could see no reason that the adults could not have gone in with their youth. Was the 'no adults' restriction just another part of their hype techniques?

I paid a lot of money for a tent space, some food, and the privilege of watching the boys participate in activities. I think that the adult fees should be lower than those of the boys who get to participate in the activities, or the activities should be planned with capacity for adults to participate. I understand that some may not have equipment in my size, or that adults in the group would lessen the experience for the boys. Those are cases where I may not be able to participate, or rules would have to be made to keep adults from interfering. In most cases, I think activities could be arrange so that adults could also participate.

What is with the stupid rule that adults can't trade patches with youth? If it was to prevent adults from taking advantage of youth and making unfair trades (as was the rumored reason), it didn't work. The youth were the ones who I saw insisting on unfair trades.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby smtroop168 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:29 pm

All sounds pretty cool...I hope they can pull it off by 2013.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby Billiken » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:39 am

Dates for the BSA Summit Inaugural Jamboree (my naming...)

July 15-24, 2013
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby wagionvigil » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:27 pm

scoutaholic let me try to answer a couple of things.
Adult fee. Every adult paid the same fee But what councils add to the cost is up to them. I paid the full adult fee and got to do less than you did.

Probably no busses at the SUmmit from what I hear. Plus in 97 01 and 05 the busses went to staff only at 5 not 6 so you got another hour.
BSA has always had a trading rule about adult to adult and youth to youth and you are correct the kids always win.
Now I will ask a question why should someone get to pay a little and do what the boys that paid alot get to do?
I have been for a visitor fee for many many years. The Visitors cost the BSA a ton of money.

I am all for keeping visitors out of the ACtivity areas for the Participants. I do not like fighting with someone that is a visitor that demands on rappelling. Sorry it will make it better for all.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby WVBeaver05 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:18 pm

wagionvigil wrote:No what I posted applys to the 2013 National Jamboree not the High Adventure Base

I can confirm that, while some discussion and planning are going on for the High Adventure Base (and to a lesser extent the future Eastern Training Center), by far most of the effort is focused on getting everything ready for the 2013 NJ at the Summit. High Adventure will start in 2014.

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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby Billiken » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:20 pm

wagionvigil wrote:I am all for keeping visitors out of the Activity areas for the Participants. I do not like fighting with someone that is a visitor that demands on rappelling. Sorry it will make it better for all.


I could not agree more.

2010 was my first Jamboree.
We had several Scouts in our troop complain about lines/times at the Merit Badge Midway.
Problem??????? Visiting Scouts.

One day the Jambo Daily Newspaper had a cover photo of a Tenderfoot Scout that earned 3 merit badges at the Midway.
Since all participants had to be First Class rank or higher, this proves that visitors were being allowed in the Midway.

I'd like to also see a trading post just for visitors and exclude them from some of the other locations.
(That will never happen...to much $$$ at stake.)
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby ThunderingWind » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:48 pm

Billiken wrote:...snipped...One day the Jambo Daily Newspaper had a cover photo of a Tenderfoot Scout that earned 3 merit badges at the Midway.
Since all participants had to be First Class rank or higher, this proves that visitors were being allowed in the Midway....snipped...
Possibly a boy who did not update his uniform..since a Scout is Honest.

My uniform still shows me from another Council and one even says I am still an Advisor for a Crew.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:53 am

Talked to several people this weekend from WV that are really excited. One a state Trooper. He works out of HQ in Charleston and they are already planning for the Jamboree. There will be 80-100 tropers assigned to the Jamboree. They have the traffic plans worked out and are really involved with the BSA planning process
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby Fred Johnson » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:23 am

Hoping to have my 2nd son to attend the 2013 NJ (if we can afford it).
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:19 pm

Fred that is up to your council. The youth fee was under 700 anything else was council added
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby scoutaholic » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:19 pm

wagionvigil wrote:scoutaholic let me try to answer a couple of things.
Adult fee. Every adult paid the same fee But what councils add to the cost is up to them. I paid the full adult fee and got to do less than you did.

I agree that your fee was also too much. Who, outside of scouting, would think to pay $800 so that they could have a 2 week job with no wage?

wagionvigil wrote:Probably no busses at the SUmmit from what I hear. Plus in 97 01 and 05 the busses went to staff only at 5 not 6 so you got another hour.

No buses? I hope things are closer together than at the hill.
Just because there was an additional hour when compared to years past, doesn't make the empty seats on the buses any better.

wagionvigil wrote:BSA has always had a trading rule about adult to adult and youth to youth and you are correct the kids always win.

I've never been a trader, and never paid attention to trading rules. This is the first time I was exposed to such a rule and it sounded dumb.

wagionvigil wrote:Now I will ask a question why should someone get to pay a little and do what the boys that paid alot get to do?
I have been for a visitor fee for many many years. The Visitors cost the BSA a ton of money.

I didn't say the daily participation fee should be little. Participants pay $80/day. Day participants should pay at least that.

wagionvigil wrote:I am all for keeping visitors out of the ACtivity areas for the Participants. I do not like fighting with someone that is a visitor that demands on rappelling. Sorry it will make it better for all.

If there were a participation fee, they wouldn't have much argument. Either they paid to participate, or they don't get to.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:29 pm

My understanding is that no one would have to walk more than a mile to anyplace at the Jamboree Site from their Subcamp. Compare to triple that at the hill
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby Billiken » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:34 pm

ThunderingWind wrote:
Billiken wrote:...snipped...One day the Jambo Daily Newspaper had a cover photo of a Tenderfoot Scout that earned 3 merit badges at the Midway.
Since all participants had to be First Class rank or higher, this proves that visitors were being allowed in the Midway....snipped...
Possibly a boy who did not update his uniform..since a Scout is Honest.


Jamboree Daily Newspaper made a big deal about the fact that Scout ----- ------ was a Tenderfoot Scout.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby scoutaholic » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:09 pm

Billiken wrote:
ThunderingWind wrote:
Billiken wrote:...snipped...One day the Jambo Daily Newspaper had a cover photo of a Tenderfoot Scout that earned 3 merit badges at the Midway.
Since all participants had to be First Class rank or higher, this proves that visitors were being allowed in the Midway....snipped...
Possibly a boy who did not update his uniform..since a Scout is Honest.


Jamboree Daily Newspaper made a big deal about the fact that Scout ----- ------ was a Tenderfoot Scout.


Our camp was right by the midway.

There were buses full of scouts that arrived at the midway every morning, and buses left from the midway every afternoon. I don't think anyone told them that the midway was only for paid participants.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby wagionvigil » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:25 pm

Our camp was right by the midway.

There were buses full of scouts that arrived at the midway every morning, and buses left from the midway every afternoon. I don't think anyone told them that the midway was only for paid participants.[/quote]

There where plenty of notices that the MB Midway was not for visitors just participants. It was in all the information sent to councils it was on the Jamboree Website etc. This is just leaders violating rules. I had a dad and son that got right down nasty with me about rappelling. Didn't work by the way. It ended when I wrote down his name from his name tag and his council name with full intention of " by the time you get home you will no longer be in scouting" funny how he said ok ands then walked away. I was serious.
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby ThunderingWind » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:07 am

wagionvigil wrote:..snipped.. It ended when I wrote down his name from his name tag and his council name with full intention of " by the time you get home you will no longer be in scouting" funny how he said ok ands then walked away. I was serious.
So, is the guy still in Scouting? Or was he removed for conduct unbecoming under Article 133, Uniform Code of BSA Justice?
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Re: Summit Plans well under way for 2013

Postby jr56 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:19 pm

I sure wouldn't want to get on your bad side, if you have that much power at your disposal.
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