Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

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Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby ronin718 » Tue May 25, 2010 7:38 am

Greetings all...

We've had a family who has developed a "family emergency" that has them flying overseas during our MJC the end of June. (Please don't make me get on my soapbox on this one.) For those within an eight-hour drive from DC, are any of your Councils doing their Jamboree campout between now and the weekend of June 12-13? This family flies out on the 19th, and our campout is the 25th-27th.

On a similar vein, I'm sure we can reciprocate if you have youth that need their campout. Thanks.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby wagionvigil » Tue May 25, 2010 8:26 am

I will check but my first response would be That this is to get the Troop to work together. I know ours set up the site just like the Jamboree I would also think about going to the council standby list and filling the slot
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby ronin718 » Tue May 25, 2010 10:13 am

I understand the purpose of these mandatory campouts. However, the letter of the law states that all participants participate in one of these events, and if they can't attend the one their own council is putting on, they can attend one for another council. This is what this young man is trying to do.

Believe me, I'm not very happy about this last-minute turn of events. I personally don't see how a "family emergency" can involve a two-week overseas trip that is scheduled at least a month prior to a mandatory event. I think the "family emergency" term is being used to try to elicit sympathy and cooperation from our council staff. However, we're doing our best to help this young man. It's not his fault his parents are thumbing their noses at the rules.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby wagionvigil » Tue May 25, 2010 10:40 am

One of our troops is having theirs June 12-14 at Eberly Reservation Outside of Somerset,PA> contact the service center and talk to Jack Waite 724 837-1630
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby Cowboy » Tue May 25, 2010 5:26 pm

First: Why did Council wait so late to hold this? Our boys have had two campouts already just to make sure that everything is ready to go. Second: This is about getting the Troop to work together. How is he going to know the team and be able to work with them if he has not already done it. The reason they mandate that the boys do this is so that everyone learns the strengths and weaknesses of the others. BSA has learned from long experience that just throwing the boys into a pile does not work. My 2¢ : He gets the choice: Go to the Campout as REQUIRED or go on vacation. What next? He hasn't made 1st Class, but that is because mom & dad did not take him to Troop meetings?
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby smtroop168 » Tue May 25, 2010 7:03 pm

ronin718 wrote:I understand the purpose of these mandatory campouts. However, the letter of the law states that all participants participate in one of these events, and if they can't attend the one their own council is putting on, they can attend one for another council. This is what this young man is trying to do.


I'll bite..."Mandatory Campouts"? Is this BSA law? What would be the purpose to go to a mandatory campout with another Jambo troop?
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby wagionvigil » Tue May 25, 2010 7:28 pm

Becaus his mommy said that no where does it say it must be with his Troop! :mrgreen: :twisted: :evil: :shock: :? :arrow: :wink: :shock: :oops:
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby ronin718 » Wed May 26, 2010 7:52 am

Cowboy wrote:First: Why did Council wait so late to hold this? Our boys have had two campouts already just to make sure that everything is ready to go. Second: This is about getting the Troop to work together. How is he going to know the team and be able to work with them if he has not already done it. The reason they mandate that the boys do this is so that everyone learns the strengths and weaknesses of the others. BSA has learned from long experience that just throwing the boys into a pile does not work. My 2¢ : He gets the choice: Go to the Campout as REQUIRED or go on vacation. What next? He hasn't made 1st Class, but that is because mom & dad did not take him to Troop meetings?


Let me preface this with the statement "The views expressed here are solely those of the speaker and do not reflect the opinion of the organization."

Since NCAC is the "host" Council, and the Jambo is in our backyard, they've been slow on this whole freaking event. We didn't get leadership positions filled until last May, we didn't get initial troop rosters until late October, and lots of other things have been behind the curve as well. This explains the lateness of the event.

Fortunately for our troop (self horn-tooting initiated), we have taken a proactive approach to getting our troop operational. We've held our own campout to give the guys a chance to interact, bond, and work together in building the gateway. We've been meeting every month since December, so the guys will know each other. We also made it clear that any youth wanting to be considered for a leadership position had to commit to being at the council event.

BSA is obviously allowing for the fact that not every boy is going to be able to attend the council event. This is why the option is out there to attend another council's activity if they can't make their own. Is it frustrating? Yes. But do we really need to take such a hard-nosed approach when BSA is making the allowance? I don't think so.

Remember, we do this for the good of Scouting and the boys. Convenience went out the window the minute we put the tent in the car. :D
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 26, 2010 8:27 am

Is it BSA or your Council? With all the Safest ever stuff I am leaning to your council just to appease mom and dad. I will check with my council cooordinator later today and see what he can tell me. I know that they told our kids if you miss you are dropped no option. They will pick their patrol leadership and make all the patrol assignments etc at this event.

NOTE: can't get an answer until June 1. All the people that would know are in Dallas.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby Billiken » Wed May 26, 2010 10:36 am

smtroop168 wrote:"Mandatory Campouts"? Is this BSA law?


Just above the parent signature line in the Centennial Jambo application it said (basically):

".....and agree to participate in the pre-jamboree training experience."

Participants (parents) contractually agreed that they would attend the training campout.
So yes, it's a condition of participation, just like payment of the fee.

Our council contingent campout was scheduled before applications were even accepted in 2008.
(It's June 4-6.)

Our four troops were "built" in the summer of 2009.
Our troops have been meeting (nearly monthly) since September 2009.
All patrols, leadership, and positions of resonsibility have been in place since October 2009.

I agree that attending a pre-jambo training weekend with another troop defeats the primary purpose of the campout (to better get to know the other members of the Jambo troop).

Curious:
How does one have a family emergency over a month from now?
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby cballman » Wed May 26, 2010 10:45 am

Sounds like the family has been able to plan everything even the emergencies in the future. I just wish I could plan that well.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby smtroop168 » Wed May 26, 2010 11:44 am

Billiken wrote:
smtroop168 wrote:"Mandatory Campouts"? Is this BSA law?


Just above the parent signature line in the Centennial Jambo application it said (basically):

".....and agree to participate in the pre-jamboree training experience."

Participants (parents) contractually agreed that they would attend the training campout.
So yes, it's a condition of participation, just like payment of the fee.

Our council contingent campout was scheduled before applications were even accepted in 2008.
(It's June 4-6.)

Our four troops were "built" in the summer of 2009.
Our troops have been meeting (nearly monthly) since September 2009.
All patrols, leadership, and positions of resonsibility have been in place since October 2009.

I agree that attending a pre-jambo training weekend with another troop defeats the primary purpose of the campout (to better get to know the other members of the Jambo troop).

Curious:
How does one have a family emergency over a month from now?


Why don't we put this "agree to participate" on the BSA application? Then we wouldn't have to define "active". :D :D
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed May 26, 2010 12:34 pm

I'm a long time scouter and the parent of one of the Jamboree participants. I'm glad my son is going. It will be a great experience and I wish I could go too. I hope my other sons get to go to jamborees too.

With that said, I want to provide some feedback from the other side of the isle.

".....and agree to participate in the pre-jamboree training experience." ... Yep, I remember knowing about that mandatory camp out. But, we did not know the date until six months later after paying a good portion of the overall fee. We just knew the scout attends the practice event or the family has wasted the $2300 for the Jamboree, non-refundable. That word, non-refundable, is the interesting one.

In the last few months, we keep learning more and more "mandatory" things and detailed "rules". Why are these being added after we committed to the event and it being non-refundable? My communication to my son is smile and do your best to follow the rules. My private attitude is no where near as pretty.

For our troops and associated events, we use the Scout Oath and Law. Those are the rules. Kindness and supporting each other naturally follow. We focus on lifting up the scout, not punishments.

Jamboree rules seem to be different. The jamboree rules I've learned lately are about the "safest ever". Found without your water bottle or with an empty water bottle, brought back to camp and denied access to program area for the rest of the day. Found without your buddy, 1st infraction, whole troop delayed one hour from program area. 2nd infraction, two hours whole troop. 3rd infraction, ....

To use words I can use here, what tin god created these rules and punishments? So if my son does not break the rules, he can be punished? What!!!!! Right, let's have the rest of the troop use a blanket party that night to correct that one scouts behavior too. Why not? Hazing seems to naturally follow. It might not be physical, but it sure as heck will be emotional. A pissed off troop. Rude comments back and forth. Ostracized and isolated from his new buddies. (Usually the lone scout is ditched as often as takes off on their own.)

Personally, I want to know if I get a refund or if I have to sue to get the money back. If he is denied more than a trivial amount of participation, that is worth hundreds of dollars. I want my money back for that!

Instead of punishments, jamboree should focus on training the leaders, Scoutmasters and his assistants to be aware of their scouts and their conditions. I’ve heard about the past jamborees. The safety failures were not the scouts fault. It was the jamboree organizers and troop leaders that failed. Why create punishment rules for the scouts.

We signed up when my son was 14 years old, a few months shy of 15. Now he is 16, 6’0, into weight lifting and physical training, has worked the last few summers at scout camps and is extremely independent. His goal is early entry Marine boot camp before his senior year in high school. To be honest, he’s ready for that now.

Jamboree? He will do fine. He will observe the rules but he sure as heck does not respect them.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby Billiken » Wed May 26, 2010 12:50 pm

Fred Johnson wrote:Jamboree rules seem to be different. The jamboree rules I've learned lately are about the "safest ever". Found without your water bottle or with an empty water bottle, brought back to camp and denied access to program area for the rest of the day. Found without your buddy, 1st infraction, whole troop delayed one hour from program area. 2nd infraction, two hours whole troop. 3rd infraction, ....


Fred: Welcome to the forum/community!!!!!!!

Where or from whom did you hear the above rules??????
I have been attending monthly contingent leader meetings, reading every thing created by national, and have NOT heard of such "rules".
Sounds more like the USMC than the BSA.
(Punish the group....)
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby wagionvigil » Wed May 26, 2010 1:25 pm

The Action Centers do have rules You need water, a Jamboree ID and The Jamboree Hat.Failure to have these result in no participation. Hat and water for Safety and the ID to prove you belong.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby Fred Johnson » Wed May 26, 2010 2:58 pm

Where or from whom did you hear the above rules??????


The members of my son's jamboree troop received it via email from his jamboree troop scoutmaster. The scoutmaster received it as part of the communication of the "safest ever" initiative at the jamboree mandatory camp out from the jamboree communication local council person.

(The practice mandatory camp out was at the Minnesota Star Camp 100th anniversary event. Star Camp had 11,500+ attend with 7,500+ camping, 600+ volunteers and 130+ activities to participate in.)
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby ronin718 » Wed May 26, 2010 3:56 pm

Fred Johnson wrote:
Where or from whom did you hear the above rules??????


The members of my son's jamboree troop received it via email from his jamboree troop scoutmaster. The scoutmaster received it as part of the communication of the "safest ever" initiative at the jamboree mandatory camp out from the jamboree communication local council person.



This sounds more like a Council/Contingent rule than a BSA/Jamboree rule. We haven't heard any such thing. But as I said earlier, NCAC has been a little slow on everything, including comms. We have a "final" leaders meeting on June 5th where more info is to be presented, so maybe we'll hear about it then. :D
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby wagionvigil » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:36 am

According to my council executive that just called The scout MUST attend with HIS Troops shakedown or drop his slot. There is no option to attend another shakedown.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby ronin718 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:20 am

wagionvigil wrote:According to my council executive that just called The scout MUST attend with HIS Troops shakedown or drop his slot. There is no option to attend another shakedown.


All I can say is your CE is being quite rigid. We've got multiple councils in the MD/DC/VA area that are showing flexibility in allowing boys to attend other Jambo-prep campouts. We even have a council from WV taking one of our boys.
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Re: Council Mandatory Jamboree Campout dates

Postby wagionvigil » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:48 am

The purpose is to work with YOUR patrol and YOUR troop. By doing it at another council it serves no purpose whatsoever except to meet the Mandatory Shakedown.
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